Payment

Posted in General Discussion.Topic Closed

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

If we allocate a job to you, please do not go demanding payment from the recipient at the delivery address. It's embarrassing for you and for us. I won't name you but you will know who you are!

For those who do send us an invoice in the correct manner, we will settle all invoice within 3-4 weeks of the invoice date and we are good payers.

Michael Lucani

567

PMSL...thats a new one...

DMS NATIONWIDE COURIERS

5507

I'm guessing that driver won't be getting anymore work from you now.

MyVanCan

1018

Blimey.

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

The controller even explained on the phone how to invoice, obviously the message didn't get passed on to the driver! However, I would expect to be approached first before getting heavy handed with the recipient!

DMS NATIONWIDE COURIERS

5507

When i invoice vendors on here, i always state 30 days payment terms

AJM sameday Couriers

3440

Not good, it's not just a case of driving a van like some people seem to think, quite a lot more research to do by a certain somebody it seems.

Nottingham & Derby Couriers

3179

Yes 30 days is the norm, Sometimes i have received invoices stating 7 days.

MG G who appears on the forum regularly did a nice little job from Nottingham to Prestwick on 30th april and was paid on 1st may.

Now that's a good fast payer!

DMS NATIONWIDE COURIERS

5507

Yes i have some really fast payers myself, which is good business if you ask me

Mr G Courier Service

2596

Who is mG G? Cant find that man in the courier profiles

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD.

2848

30 days is normal.

To be blunt, I do not see why a 'subbie' should receive payment any sooner than the company giving him the job i.e 30 days.

Whether just being a subbie, or running a small [or large] company, there is no difference, both are running businesses and really should NOT expect payment sooner than 30 days. It is how it is and really when starting your own business that should be accepted.

We do pay 30 days, yet have contracts [That I agreed, and am more than happy with] with companies who pay 60-90 or longer!

I will get slated for this no doubt, but in my previous Business management studies, we were told that the 'clever ones' are those that hang on to their money, after all money makes money so it is better off only paying at the death, a classic company that do this is none other than BT. It is not clever paying someone before payment is due. As a previous manager with them we were not allowed to pay suppliers until the last possible minute!

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Going a tad off topic but yes 30 days is the norm, and from my experience those that pay quicker are those asking for lower rates As for the author of this topic, you kinda get what you pay for... The subbie asking for payment at the delivery point clearly hasn't a clue what he's doing... And that my friend, is why none of us pay silly rates

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD.

2848

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


Going a tad off topic but yes 30 days is the norm, and from my experience those that pay quicker are those asking for lower rates As for the author of this topic, you kinda get what you pay for... The subbie asking for payment at the delivery point clearly hasn't a clue what he's doing... And that my friend, is why none of us pay silly rates

Spot on Rob

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


As for the author of this topic, you kinda get what you pay for... The subbie asking for payment at the delivery point clearly hasn't a clue what he's doing... And that my friend, is why none of us pay silly rates

Interesting comment... ok, can you explain what I should expect when paying 90p per mile for a small van job?

PB Express

1049

I dont think the rate comes into it

You could have paid £1:50 plm and still ended up with a muppet

Thats exchange sites for you... Post work out of area and its any tom dick or harry

So long as the jobs covered and youve got your margin

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

I think Speed was making the incorrect assumption that I was paying peanuts for this job, and therefore deserved a monkey. I think he was a bit too hasty in his presumption.

PB - I agree, it is not about money at all. The truth of the matter, if i had one of my own regulars available, I would have covered the job for less and got a professional job done.

I am relatively new to subbing jobs out on here, but I will be building a list of trusted suppliers over the next few weeks, so hopefully there will be less of this kind of incident.

3D Courier Services

25600

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


Going a tad off topic but yes 30 days is the norm, and from my experience those that pay quicker are those asking for lower rates

Can't say that I agree. Take a look at my feedback re payments and ask any of my subbies if I pay lower rates. I pay quickly because the money is in my bank account not earning interest and I'm not paying interest so why hang on to it just for the sake of it. My subbies like working for me because I pay a fair rate and they get paid quickly! I like it because I can look at my creditors and think " I owe nobody nowt"

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Ok a generalisation perhaps, but I have heard those that quote a lower price for early payment, so not an "off the wall" comment I think you'll agree. I still pay my chaps weekly, my comment is saying what we all know, 30 days IS the norm

90p a mile? I thought you nearly went bust paying 82pplm... Shall i say goodbye now then?

HSP Couriers LTD

1861

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


Going a tad off topic but yes 30 days is the norm, and from my experience those that pay quicker are those asking for lower rates

Completely disagree Rob, We don't expect cheaper rates just because a subby invoice is paid within 7 working days of receipt of invoice and pod, and majority of them quicker. Very rarely struggle to cover work and would like to think the reason behind that is because a decent price is given to the subby and they are paid quickly and NOT because they would need to quote cheaper in order to be paid quick.

I know (hope) that you don't mean ALL those that pay quicker are those asking for lower rates.

Invoices are paid quickly so people remember us, and if they see work we have posted are more than likely to call for it even if it is a little out their way for example, rather than not call because its a company they've never heard of or have any knowledge about

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

90p a mile? I thought you nearly went bust paying 82pplm... Shall i say goodbye now then?

As I have said before, I can't afford to pay pay that kind of money all the time. But when overflow work is put on here, we pay the price we are quoted (as long as it is viable), as I did on this occasion. Sometimes jobs just have to be covered, regardless of the price.

MK BIKES

2821

Somewhere somehow communication has broken down, maybe it's the controller you need to pay more or get one with experience. I often text what has been agreed (terms, price included) so there's no misunderstanding's later

HSP Couriers LTD

1861

Courier Expert said:


Sometimes jobs just have to be covered, regardless of the price.

Finally - something I can honestly say that I agree with you upon!

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

MK Bikes said:

Somewhere somehow communication has broken down, maybe it's the controller you need to pay more or get one with experience. I often text what has been agreed (terms, price included) so there's no misunderstanding's later

I have a copy of all the texts and the controller is not to blame. I hope you are not defending the subbie? I don't think there is any excuse for what happened today.

Asap-Direct

4759

I agree with 3D fast payments to subbies pays dividends. Cash flow is vital for any business if everyonepaidon time the economy would soon recover. We would all get more work. I do work forgone company who paid in two works. We always turned out priority, now he pays on 31 working days, I now look at his account and think twice. Who's thinner now? A lot of posters on here pay fast and my compliments to them.

Asap-Direct

4759

Thinner my diet is on my mind again. Not working!

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

HSP Couriers said:


Courier Expert said:


Sometimes jobs just have to be covered, regardless of the price.

Finally - something I can honestly say that I agree with you upon!

Whatever our differences, we all have one thing in common which is customers!

Liospeed Parcel

72

There is no excuse for the subbi driver because sometimes small companies recruit drivers that where self employed and used to get paid on delivery.

Price does not determine quality as our aim is to satisfy our customer by offering a good service at a good price.

MK BIKES

2821

Courier Expert said:


MK Bikes said:

Somewhere somehow communication has broken down, maybe it's the controller you need to pay more or get one with experience. I often text what has been agreed (terms, price included) so there's no misunderstanding's later

I have a copy of all the texts and the controller is not to blame. I hope you are not defending the subbie? I don't think there is any excuse for what happened today.

You do put words in peoples mouths don't you? Would you not agree communication has broken down?

MyVanCan

1018

Surely the minimum any vendor could expect from a member is to understand the basics of how this line of work operates? Maybe he thought he was still on Anyvan.

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

MK Bikes said:


Courier Expert said:


MK Bikes said:

Somewhere somehow communication has broken down, maybe it's the controller you need to pay more or get one with experience. I often text what has been agreed (terms, price included) so there's no misunderstanding's later

I have a copy of all the texts and the controller is not to blame. I hope you are not defending the subbie? I don't think there is any excuse for what happened today.

You do put words in peoples mouths don't you? Would you not agree communication has broken down?

You also implied I should sack the controller, instead of holding the subbie to account!

MK BIKES

2821

Eh? You're deluded you really are

MK BIKES

2821

Anyway kinda proves my belief that you cant provide a local level of service hundreds of miles away when you haven't even met the driver.

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

MK Bikes said:

Eh? You're deluded you really are

Have you read your own words?

MK Bikes said: - maybe it's the controller you need to pay more or get one with experience.

MK BIKES

2821

You could always have two, bill & ben

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

MyVanCan said:


Surely the minimum any vendor could expect from a member is to understand the basics of how this line of work operates? Maybe he thought he was still on Anyvan.

100% agree

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD.

2848

MK Bikes said:


Anyway kinda proves my belief that you cant provide a local level of service hundreds of miles away when you haven't even met the driver.

So true

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

MK Bikes said:


You could always have two, bill & ben

I already do, but there are not called bill and ben, lol.

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:


MK Bikes said:


Anyway kinda proves my belief that you cant provide a local level of service hundreds of miles away when you haven't even met the driver.

So true

A valid point and it is true.

MK BIKES

2821

Anyway to agree with almost everyone who in the world would ask for payment at the delivery point? Almost unbelievable

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Very odd, unless it was someone used to doing eBay deliveries?

Flobalob

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Anyway, this whole thread is silly... Any issues should have been done in private, no need to go public with such a daft cock up

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


Anyway, this whole thread is silly... Any issues should have been done in private, no need to go public with such a daft cock up

It was done in private and I did not name them , however I believe it is a valid issue to raise. I also would like anyone who reads this to understand (if your not familiar with how things work), that any job we put on here, is paid on invoice, not directly by my clients or recipients. Prevention is better than cure.

Gas Motorcycle Couriers

3617

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed

Yes I have some...

MK BIKES

2821

Anyone noticed how the quote button doesn't appear on the two most recent replies?

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

It does appear if you refresh the page, although i never noticed it doing that before.

Website Admin

6619

MK Bikes said:


Anyone noticed how the quote button doesn't appear on the two most recent replies?

Apologies for that, a small bug left as quoting was added later. I'll try to amend it soon (when my new hard drive arrives as I'm currently out of action).

3D Courier Services

25600

MyVanCan said:


Surely the minimum any vendor could expect from a member is to understand the basics of how this line of work operates? Maybe he thought he was still on Anyvan.

I have to agree. I had a call today from an OD saying he had just received a text from me asking for him to do a job from Lincoln to Barnsley and what should he do now? I asked him to quote me a price and he replied "you texted me, what you paying?" I pointed out that it was mtvan that texted and I asked where he was and he said Birmingham! I was a bit lost for words but pointed out that it was a bit out of his way. He then said you've sent me a job from Birmingham to, (somewhere down south,) and how much am i paying?

I sometimes shake my head!

Edsah

588

Thanks Courier Expert for the contact... Hope next time I'll be very handy!

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

3D Courier Services said:


MyVanCan said:


Surely the minimum any vendor could expect from a member is to understand the basics of how this line of work operates? Maybe he thought he was still on Anyvan.

I have to agree. I had a call today from an OD saying he had just received a text from me asking for him to do a job from Lincoln to Barnsley and what should he do now? I asked him to quote me a price and he replied "you texted me, what you paying?" I pointed out that it was Mtvan that texted and I asked where he was and he said Birmingham! I was a bit lost for words but pointed out that it was a bit out of his way. He then said you've sent me a job from Birmingham to, (somewhere down south,) and how much am i paying?

I sometimes shake my head!

We now do a telephone induction for our own couriers, where everything is explained to them in detail, before they are let loose on real customers. We go though a checklist of all the usual things that have caused problems in the past and all the basics of what is expected (communication/gob/pods/waiting time etc). This has solved most of the problems we used to get.

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

Edsah said:


Thanks Courier Expert for the contact... Hope next time I'll be very handy!

No problem, hopefully we will be doing some business in the future. We seem to be getting busier in and around the Slough/Colnbrook area just recently.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Isn't it sad that we've got to the stage where we have to state the bleedin obvious.

There really should be some sort of test before you can join an exchange site, or before they're even let loose on a phone.

Another example of Britain dumbing down

I despair

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD.

2848

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


Isn't it sad that we've got to the stage where we have to state the bleedin obvious.

There really should be some sort of test before you can join an exchange site, or before they're even let loose on a phone.

Another example of Britain dumbing down

I despair

It sure is sad! I despair too!

Telephone Induction course.. haha Tbh I have never heard anything more ridiculous, it is obvious if you have to resort to this, that there is a serious flaw in your business model.

Point 2 Point Couriers

214

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:


Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


Isn't it sad that we've got to the stage where we have to state the bleedin obvious.

There really should be some sort of test before you can join an exchange site, or before they're even let loose on a phone.

Another example of Britain dumbing down

I despair

It sure is sad! I despair too!

Telephone Induction course.. haha Tbh I have never heard anything more ridiculous, it is obvious if you have to resort to this, that there is a serious flaw in your business model.

Well said.

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

Telephone Induction course.. haha Tbh I have never heard anything more ridiculous, it is obvious if you have to resort to this, that there is a serious flaw in your business model.

I am really not sure what is so ridiculous about providing some kind of induction/training, to those who have not worked for us before. I believe CX also do something very similar for new entrants.

Had I also extended this same training to third party suppliers, then this incident would probably not have happened.

SMC Express

471

Courier Expert said:


Telephone Induction course.. haha Tbh I have never heard anything more ridiculous, it is obvious if you have to resort to this, that there is a serious flaw in your business model.

I am really not sure what is so ridiculous about providing some kind of induction/training, to those who have not worked for us before. I believe CX also do something very similar for new entrants.

Had I also extended this same training to third party suppliers, then this incident would probably not have happened.

Thats the trouble with dragging people into the industry who have no interest in it other than seeing promises of money on a web site, no interest, no clue. But CX give training because they are an exchange, you?

I do agree that it should have been mentioned here though, it illustrates the kind of stupidity that has become rife in the UK and the kind of battle people are up against when finding decent people to cover jobs.

MyVanCan

1018

As the first controller I ever worked for way back when said to me, "this job's not exactly rocket science". Which was ironic really as I'd just given up my previous carreer in rocket science.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

There are some things that really shouldn't have to be said, and the fact that they do, says a lot about where this country is headed

Nottingham & Derby Couriers

3179

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


Going a tad off topic but yes 30 days is the norm, and from my experience those that pay quicker are those asking for lower rates As for the author of this topic, you kinda get what you pay for... The subbie asking for payment at the delivery point clearly hasn't a clue what he's doing... And that my friend, is why none of us pay silly rates

I don't think we fall under the (those that pay quicker are those asking for lower rates) I paid the driver quickly as i was completing the driver pay run for the end of month and just added it to the end.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

I can't see the relevance of your comment?

The last few comments are referring to the need by some to offer drivers an induction..

Gas Motorcycle Couriers

3617

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


I can't see the relevance of your comment?

The last few comments are referring to the need by some to offer drivers an induction..

I can see where your coming from Rob and it may work with clients as well, but its not always the case, I also like to pay early not only to keep the rider / driver sweet but think about future work being covered, but its one less thing on my to do's list.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

I wasn't suggesting everyone that pays early is paying low, as you can see further up, we pay our drivers weekly so i'd hardly start slaggin myself off would I.

There are examples where both couriers AND courier companies pay quickly so as to "negotiate" a lower quote

You know it, as do N and D.

Now can we please get back to certain members suggesting an induction course is needed

Website Admin

6619

Point 2 Point Couriers said:


RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:


It sure is sad! I despair too!

Telephone Induction course.. haha Tbh I have never heard anything more ridiculous, it is obvious if you have to resort to this, that there is a serious flaw in your business model.

Well said.

I disagree. Yes it may be a shame that telephone induction courses are needed, however there is no "obvious" reason why having to do this means there's a flaw in your business model.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

I think what Alan is suggesting is, if you need an induction course, the caliber of driver you're using isn't up to it.

In the old days people new to the industry had to follow strict guidelines, and manuals were provided. BUT We're now in the 21st century where anyone worth their salt has already done their homework before getting into their van. It's called the internet and If they haven't done their homework then I would strongly suggest that it's already too late.

We are, after all, talking about freelance sub-contractors... Businesses in their own right, not employees who you can mould into your way of working.

Any business that needs an induction course first, has already failed

3D Courier Services

25600

Yes but I think Courier Expert is heading more down the Franchise route which might warrant an induction course.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Don't go giving him ideas ffs

The opinions expressed in this topic are those of the author, and do not reflect in any way those of his Company or any to which he may be affiliated

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

If only every courier were ready made, in some cases they are, but in the real word, some kind of induction is a sensible measure. It is also the right thing for those who are most important in the equation, which is my customers.

DJ Specialist Couriers

454

Surely if you are a sub-contractor/contractor taking on work from a company you would ask about payment terms before you undertake any work. The norm as stated here is within 30 days and if you get paid before that its a bonus. If you are taking on work from an individual, ie, private customer would you not discuss payment terms and arrange to be paid before you undertake the work. You would never demand money at the point of delivery unless you had pre-arranged this with your customer before hand. Its not rocket science?

ILKLEY EXPRESS

1237

I think that is a wise move MR Courier, as the man who has not made a mistake, has not be born yet! But as for asking for money, well thats one big mistake

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

I think the problem was between the controller of the company I subbed the job to, and their driver. I don't know the full facts of what they did, but everything was explained to their controller/wife/partner whoever it was, but I suspect she subbed the job out to someone who does not have the slightest clue!

DJ Specialist Couriers

454

Courier Expert said:


I think the problem was between the controller of the company I subbed the job to, and their driver. I don't know the full facts of what they did, but everything was explained to their controller/wife/partner whoever it was, but I suspect she subbed the job out to someone who does not have the slightest clue!

I know that its not always possible but I try and talk to the person doing the work directly, you can gauge how a person is by the way they answer your questions and their ability to communicate with you. Customer service is paramount, if your contractor does not have the ability to provide the basics your company image will suffer.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Well said DJ spot on

You need to talk to those you give work to, not assume cos they're on an exchange that they know what they're doing. Its relatively easy to suss out the standard you're going to get by talking to them... Usually within 5 seconds you'll know... Subbing out to someone who's going to sub it out is asking for trouble and you then lose control of your work.

Andrew, you say it's the right thing to do for the most important in the equation, the customer, but you gave your important job to someone who wasn't the one actually doing it... Which is dangerous.

Your experience should have told you that i'd have thought.

If it had happened to me i'm not sure i'd want to share it with all and sundry on here, but thats just me

Seems to me you're freely admitting the standard of courier is secondary to just gettin the job covered, and for me, it's a little bit more than that

Courier Expert

174993
Original Poster

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:


Well said DJ spot on

You need to talk to those you give work to, not assume cos they're on an exchange that they know what they're doing. Its relatively easy to suss out the standard you're going to get by talking to them... Usually within 5 seconds you'll know... Subbing out to someone who's going to sub it out is asking for trouble and you then lose control of your work.

Andrew, you say it's the right thing to do for the most important in the equation, the customer, but you gave your important job to someone who wasn't the one actually doing it... Which is dangerous.

Your experience should have told you that i'd have thought.

If it had happened to me i'm not sure i'd want to share it with all and sundry on here, but thats just me

Seems to me you're freely admitting the standard of courier is secondary to just gettin the job covered, and for me, it's a little bit more than that

If we get a handful of offers, then all well and good. In this particular case, they were the only viable option at the time, so the choice was not there to make. And to be fair, who could have predicted it would go pear shaped in the way that it did?

Gas Motorcycle Couriers

3617

Courier Expert said:


I think the problem was between the controller of the company I subbed the job to, and their driver. I don't know the full facts of what they did, but everything was explained to their controller/wife/partner whoever it was, but I suspect she subbed the job out to someone who does not have the slightest clue!

Speed is correct in what he says.

So for that I'm not even going to post as you've clearly pointed out the situation.

Website Admin

6619

I don't think there's much more to be gained from this thread.

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