Regulation in the Courier Industry

We've all had a moan and a whinge about the falling standards in our industry.

There are those that go round in uninsured rustbuckets of a van, or in cars, i've even heard of someone operating as a courier in an old school bus???!!!

A lot of this is down to rates not keeping in touch with reality, making it increasingly difficult for the job to be done properly.

If we allow anyone to walk i to get into this industry then we deserve what we get.

If you look at taxis up and down the country they have police checks, the knowledge to get thru, and they work with local councils every year to set the rates for the coming year.

Most insist on a vehicle no older than 5 years old, and these are checked every year for their roadworthyness (not a standard mot, its more thorough than that) and you even have to have a peridoic medical.

If you fail any of these checks you're out, simple as that.

For years i've been saying we need regulating...self regualtion doesn't stop these fly by knights coming in until their van blows up, so it might make you feel better about how you run your biz, but it doesn't get the shisters out.

Haulage has rules and regulations so why don't couriers?

Why have we become the mini cab of the taxi world?...and i for one think we're worth more than that.

This will never happen Rob as Courier industry is not in the public eye . The dangers of the courier industry are known to VOSA such as drivers over loading and not having the correct knowedge or training when it comes to loading a van , Poor management and observation of driving hours and towing trailers and not undersatnding the law !!! The reality is who does these issue effect ....The answer is very few people or members of the public .!! They matter to us in fact not much else in the world matters to us this is all a very big thing to us but the realisty it is us only . There are a lot more taxis or HGVs than there are courier vehicles taxis have to be regulated because they carry the public so thats important ! When I was on the trucks in the beginning we had no taco and some would even do 70 to 80 MPH with 1970 styled brakes . Drivers were driving for 24 hours we could fiddle the log book if we wanted . There were some real nasty accidents involving both the trucks and other road users things had to change and they did .

I suppose we fall into the catagory of moble hairdressers ect we are never going to do that much damage to the public so nobody really cares about our small minority . It has always been this way and always will be You can only really project your own business as an professional outfit and not be too worried about what anybody else is doing

I can tell you one thing tho....Taxis, despite all their rules and regulations, do NOT have any law preventing a driver doing both a day and a night shift!!!!

Many times i've known a taxi start at 1500 independently, "logon" to the firm he "works" for at 1800, and work thru til 0800 the next morning

Fair point Rob I know nothing about taxis and my quest for knowlage in this industry was seriously damaged due to my chances of gaining an underdstanding only happening on late drunken nights where my only concern was getiing home to the right house !!!!

Lol...so you are the same as the people you talk about...you care little about the standard of the driver or his vehicle, as long as you get to your destination....oblivious to the route taken...(only joking, but you see my point)

What would happen if they decided on putting tacographs in 3.5t vans, that would have a big impact on us all as we can drive all day and night if we wished.

The NCA (national Couriers association) has the opportunity to promote self regulation but by the very nature of their rules prevents 90% of couriers joining it, instead directing them to the despatch association which appears to be the poorer brother , the benefits of membership aren't clear enough to warrant the membership costs.

Who is big enough to have a voice?

Mr Speed courier

Whilst not agreeing with all your comments .... You should have also added the driver cpc. This currently covers everything, and could be adapted to meet the courier industry. Its currently not a test more of an education. I read on MT VAN a while back some one in an xlwb van caught speeding at 70mph on a dual carrigeway. As the police will tell you " Ignorance is no excuse"

Mr. Swift

In Germany tacho's are compulsary in 3.5t vans... Drivers using the roads in Germany and are non resident in Germany are required to use a tacho or fill in a log sheet. failure to fill in a log or use your tacho if fitted, results in an instant roadside fine, So you can bet your bottom dollar that it will reach the UK at sometime. Even if its just so the chancelor can fine you £60 a go

I've heard it said that "we're only offering what the customer wants" in defence of using cars, but is that customer aware that the driver is not insured properly. Are they aware that by selecting the cheaper alternative (cheaper due to not paying for the correct insurance) that they are damaging those that do things properly, thereby helping falling standards.

I've also heard it said that what i'm suggesting would, ineffect, produce a "closed shop", It wouldn't be a "closed shop", it would be a regulated shop!

You can't be a gas fitter without being registered (used to be corgi?), so why should we be any different?

I want a professional industry run by professionals for professionals. If everyone was playing by the same rules, standards would inevitably improve, as would rates, and these cowboys would have to go elsewhere

Maybe the forthcoming merger of The Despatch Association and The National Courier Association into The National Courier and Despatch Association (The NCDA) in January 2015 will herald a more professional attitude in general.

Its about time some sort of o'licence was fetched in for ANY vehicle work for H&R

That should reading WORKING for H&R :)

FFS I GIVE UP

that should READ "WORKING for H&r"

head all over sorting ISO9001 :-s

SMH said:

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That should reading WORKING for H&R :)

Maybe the forthcoming merger of The Despatch Association and The National Courier Association into The National Courier and Despatch Association (The NCDA) in January 2015 will herald a more professional attitude in general.

Will things really be any different.. more rhetoric, little action. Wonder if they will offer free membership to increase the awareness.

Whilst not agreeing with all your comments .... You should have also added the driver cpc

Don't get to hung up with driver cpc, it was introduced to educate drivers and to keep them up to date and to make the industry more professional, it is in fact another tax on drivers and companies, the courses are easy to get thru, have no pass or fail last 8 hours each and you only have to do one a year at £130 ish.

Fastback Parcel Solutions said:

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Whilst not agreeing with all your comments .... You should have also added the driver cpc

Don't get to hung up with driver cpc, it was introduced to educate drivers and to keep them up to date and to make the industry more professional, it is in fact another tax on drivers and companies, the courses are easy to get thru, have no pass or fail last 8 hours each and you only have to do one a year at £130 ish.

Totally wrong information :

Driver cpc is a legal requirement for operator's and drivers of vehicles over 3.5 tonne for the use of for hire and reward, driver cpc is a legal requirement from September the 14th 2014 drivers from this date canot drive any vehicle over 3.5 tonne gvw without the qualification :this consists of 35 hours of "training that is broken down into various aspects, tachograph operation and law,drivers hours regulations, safe load and unloading, daily checks. Etc the cost of each module varies from £60:00 to as low as £35:00, THIS IS A LEGAL REQUIREMENT and companies that either use or employ drivers must after this date insist that the driver is "qualified " after you complete the course you must within the 5 year period complete a further 35 hours of training be it all in one go or the option to do a one day course every year for 5 years is available and this is regulated and monitored by dvla, so in summary 14.09.2014 no cpc no work in vehicles over 3.5 tonne gvw that includes van and trailer for commercial use.

What part of my post was wrong information, I speak from a position of having completed all my hgv training to date. I was commenting on the usefulness of the training as an aid to making drivers more professional. May I also say if yiu are getting training courses delivered for £35 you are doing very well. There is also no requirement to take a different one day course, you could actually do the same course on one day each year.

What is wrong is our government policies! If they were less generous with handouts it would stop people having a go at this just to top up their beer money. It would also put an end to people running around for peanuts, and would therefore have a knock on effect raising the amount what people would have to pay!

We pay £65 for our driver cpc (bs course / training, gov money making spin) inc dinner :-)

"Don't get to hung up with driver cpc" if you drive 3.5 tonne and above It is a legal requirement

"it was introduced to educate drivers" It was introduced as a regulatory element to conform with the rest of Europe (u. K being the last to complete )and keep the profession regulated with fines for not complying on a sliding scale

"it is in fact another tax on drivers and companies" Companies have no obligation to have it but the driver has to have it by law and it, s not a tax it is a qualification.

" the courses are easy to get thru"

Correct

" have no pass or fail last 8 hours each and you only have to do one a year at £130 ish"

7 hour's per module £65.00 from pentalever,£45.00 from gold's £35.00 from best connection employment agency. 35 hours of training over 5 years or 7 hours per annum

P. S I also have completed with adr counting as 4 modules towards my total of 35 hours

Sorry rapid I am not disagreeing with what u say, but was questioning the usefulness of the 'qualification' and how it would be useful in this industry, yes my figure of £130 was wide of the mark that was my FLT refresher that I did. There is no pass or fail. Yes it is another tax as most compulsory training is, in my book anyway, you shouldn't have to force firms to train their employees they should be doing it as a matter of course. I too am fully ADR qualified as well and that cost me personally around £400 to do (if my memory serves me right) The point I am making is its not a be all and end all and wont solve the problems in this industry merely price some people out of it.

P if I remember right an ADR refresher only counts towards 3 modules. Maybe the whole course eg core packages etc counts as 4. I stand to be corrected.

Barnsley Shipping said:

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This will never happen Rob as Courier industry is not in the public eye . The dangers of the courier industry are known to VOSA such as drivers over loading and not having the correct knowedge or training when it comes to loading a van , Poor management and observation of driving hours and towing trailers and not undersatnding the law !!! The reality is who does these issue effect ....The answer is very few people or members of the public .!! They matter to us in fact not much else in the world matters to us this is all a very big thing to us but the realisty it is us only . There are a lot more taxis or HGVs than there are courier vehicles taxis have to be regulated because they carry the public so thats important ! When I was on the trucks in the beginning we had no taco and some would even do 70 to 80 MPH with 1970 styled brakes . Drivers were driving for 24 hours we could fiddle the log book if we wanted . There were some real nasty accidents involving both the trucks and other road users things had to change and they did .

I suppose we fall into the catagory of moble hairdressers ect we are never going to do that much damage to the public so nobody really cares about our small minority . It has always been this way and always will be You can only really project your own business as an professional outfit and not be too worried about what anybody else is doing

Where is this fellow?

We regulate ourselves being bsi / iso registered we have to check insurances/ driving licences / mot expiry dates etc all vans have to be under 4 years when they start and can use them for 3 years only

FYI Barnsley Shipping was a almost cerainly a forum style of the infamous Jeremy Hawke.

AJM sameday Couriers said:

Where is this fellow?

He hasnt been on since late 2012 and I dont think he's a mbr anymore..

Im told by a person in the know that 2017 will be the introduction of tacho in 3.5 tonners no info on a lower limit but as itll be tacho licence and 7k the first van as per hgv regs

Legrys Express Ltd said:

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Im told by a person in the know that 2017 will be the introduction of tacho in 3.5 tonners no info on a lower limit but as itll be tacho licence and 7k the first van as per hgv regs

Please do elaborate who this person is? There so far has been suggestions, and suggestions only and they haven't been took up. So your contact in the know is I think guessing and talking twaddle.

So you really want the the government to regulate? Taking more cash off you for the privilege to drive on top off all the other insurances you all ready pay you must be mad

ATM Logistics said:

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Legrys Express Ltd said:

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Im told by a person in the know that 2017 will be the introduction of tacho in 3.5 tonners no info on a lower limit but as itll be tacho licence and 7k the first van as per hgv regs

Please do elaborate who this person is? There so far has been suggestions, and suggestions only and they haven't been took up. So your contact in the know is I think guessing and talking twaddle.

I was told by the cpc instructor at sports direct who said the concept will become implemented in 2018. He said he got it from channels through becoming an instructor and thus from the ministry. No details given just that prepare yourself for a glut of work when 3.5 tonners come under the need for cpc. Do i believe it is another thing? I was also told the same by vrs truck drivers while ND messed me about 1 afternoon but although they believe im unsure if there wernt flapping bum cheeks. Chinese whispers? I dunno. I cant help think theres no smoke without fire and were at the minute unregulated in a world of red tape, a real rarity . I cant but help think theres nothing to stop anyone coming to the UK and doing this line of work and its also a loophole and loophole tend to get tightened until theres no hole left . I also cant help but think it would stick a fair few quid into the treasury if they could get force something through . So for the previous reasons then hell yeah i think its coming but from the words of someone who may know something ? N ooo

Legrys Express Ltd said:

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Im told by a person in the know that 2017 will be the introduction of tacho in 3.5 tonners no info on a lower limit but as itll be tacho licence and 7k the first van as per hgv regs

Now theirs a blast from the past, this was also talked about in the 1990's for all taxi and private hire and that is as far as it ever got, so going on that I would say this one will be the same.