Car jobs, here we go again...

There seems to have been a precedent set since car jobs have been allowed to monopolise this site. A couple of other vendors have now started to offer jobs out for cars forcing rates down yet again

Call me a cynic but these jobs are not posted because the cargo is easily carried by car, they are posted because a precedent has been set and now others are jumping on the bandwagon.

These jobs encourage random drivers looking for extra work tax free. They are not jobs that can make a decent living wage for a properly certified professional driver therefore have no place on this site.

what started off as car jobs covering a maximum of 20 miles have now become regular long distance jobs such as Edinburgh to Leicester.

Now tell me how many "part-time"drivers in their Toyota Avensis would be willing and able to cover that distance?

mtvan is for vans!

Courier work for cars should either be priced the same as a small van or be advertised on Gumtree

Mr G the true voice of reason, I'm with you, does the site say ??van. Are they again as we all keep saying insured etc etc... A ll low prices lead is lots of us going bust>

This has been said many times but nothing ever being done about it. No wonder so many members have left but I agree with both of you. This site is called mtvan but just seems to be car jobs on here. This is not what i'm about so I wont be paying to renew my subs

Its a shame Mr G put on me onto this site and was working but recently a graduall decline in work and jobs. Posted excepted this car jobs, please sort it.

started off as car jobs covering a maximum of 20 miles

These jobs (the Retail Sameday) are no longer posted on mtvan.

decent living wage for a properly certified professional driver

Does it say anywhere on the jobs how much/little the Vendor is prepared to pay?

"part-time"drivers in their Toyota Avensis

If you look down the Newsfeed, at people posting empty, updating their details, and on the Directory, and so on, it's very very rare nowadays to see anyone like that on mtvan.

And if you look at the people making offers online for the work, it's people with vans.

nothing ever being done about it

This is not true.

In 2014 we have called many 100s of members on mtvan to check they are genuine couriers, and have blocked the account of anyone who isn't.

Also for months now before you can join and use mtvan, you have to persuade us on the phone that you are actively involved in the industry as a professional courier or as a courier company.

We call every new joiner to decide whether they deserve to be Activated or Blocked.

And we don't have to block many, because the first thing you see at the top of the joining page is this:

We invite established companies with customers, mission-ready (fully insured) owner drivers and freight forwarders to apply for mtvan membership. Applications from companies not involved in road haulage will not be accepted.

And when we speak to new members, we say how important it is (for their success on mtvan) for them to have a fully updated profile including picture, description and insurance, and to verify their postal address so people know who they are trading with.

Because that's what the Vendors want.

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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This has been said many times but nothing ever being done about it. No wonder so many members have left but I agree with both of you. This site is called mtvan but just seems to be car jobs on here. This is not what i'm about so I wont be paying to renew my subs

Agree 100% which why I haven't renewed my subs. This site could have been real competition for Courier Exchange but it's been ruined by one company singlehandedly. Virtually every job posred on here is for cars. And not just retail jobs.

This site is called mtvan but just seems to be car jobs on here.

Well that's the bit you can do something about more easily than us.

We have been told often enough "you'll have to tighten up who you let on here before I sell my work on mtvan".

Well we've gone a long way in that direction, and are continuing with the effort.

So all it needs now is for people who have been reluctant in the past to post work here to post everything they have got for a couple of months and see the benefits of having a good value alternative exchange.

This is not what i'm about so I wont be paying to renew my subs

You don't need to pay us to post work. You're very welcome to stay as a free member. It's not your money we want, it's your work! :)

I agree with you all. I agree mtvan has tightened up but as the guys say it is called mtvan so please put a block on ALL car work. How many of the advertisers are going to accept a small van bid on a car job... I still like this site so please help the guys out and block all unwanted jobs. Maybe I am just peed off cos I aint got any car job at backload price due to they go to favoured drivers of the advertiser.

please help the guys out and block all unwanted jobs

Thanks for that, but I can't agree that that is the way forward, as it will p$ss the Vendors off.

Almost all of the Vendors have a variety of work, ranging from stuff that will sit on the front seat of a car, to a couple of pallets.

I really don't think it would be in our courier members' interests to try to pick and choose.

As I say, righting the balance of the work on here is in the gift of the members here, who have van work they place elsewhere but not on here.

I see nothings changed then! Same problem different day.

In a word :SEPERATION

If it helps, we have a really neat system that can auto-post selected jobs from controllers' computer systems, and we're happy to put the effort in at our end, at our expense, if it would help the "I don't want to be posting work on two exchanges" objection.

Same problem different day.

Yes.

I see nothings changed then!

No:

In 2014 we have called many 100s of members on mtvan to check they are genuine couriers, and have blocked the account of anyone who isn't.

Also for months now before you can join and use mtvan, you have to persuade us on the phone that you are actively involved in the industry as a professional courier or as a courier company.

We call every new joiner to decide whether they deserve to be Activated or Blocked.

And we don't have to block many, because the first thing you see at the top of the joining page is this:

We invite established companies with customers, mission-ready (fully insured) owner drivers and freight forwarders to apply for mtvan membership. Applications from companies not involved in road haulage will not be accepted.

And when we speak to new members, we say how important it is (for their success on mtvan) for them to have a fully updated profile including picture, description and insurance, and to verify their postal address so people know who they are trading with.

Because that's what the Vendors want.

I don't think there is much wrong with using a car, but what is wrong is expecting the price to be cheaper than a van, if people bid say 60 pence a mile for a car and 70 pence for a van then people are going to ask for a car rather than a van in that case if everybody quoted there small van prices then they would have to pay them, I don't think the issue is vehicle related but price related.

mtvan.com Ltd said:

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Same problem different day.

Yes.

I see nothings changed then!

No:

The effort I would surmise is relatively simple for a computer programmer to put in a gate that allows the poster to put forward the work via one site with the inclusion of "car work"/non courier type van page that people whom whant that work can look, Or MTCAR. COM

I don't think the issue is vehicle related but price related.

Given that the vast vast vast majority of people on here are in vans, I would 100% agree with you.

I have 2 lady drivers that use astra estate cars. I do a lot of work for the Home Office and the legal profession in Sheffield. They are quite happy for me to supply cars for their important documents and actually ask for the girls by name. They much prefer deliveries to be made by a smartly dressed lady in a nice polished astra than a guy in hi viz, hard hat and steel toe caps in a scruffy van who's last job was delivering a pallet to a building site. I guess it's horses for courses! By the way, I pay 70pplm whether it be an astra estate or an astra van.

The effort I would surmise is relatively simple for a computer programmer to put in a gate that allows the poster to put forward the work via one site with the inclusion of "car work"/non courier type van page that people whom whant that work can look, Or MTCAR. COM

You can already do a lot on here to filter the work you don't want to be alerted to/to see: Start here.

But I think if you're running a small van you're cutting off your nose to spite your face if you filter out Car work?

As in...

By the way, I pay 70pplm whether it be an astra estate or an astra van.

If a vendor puts a "car job" on the site purely to let anyone quoting thats its small enough to fit in a car, rather than a pallet that'll need a van, when said person looking already has a pallet on his van but can easily fit an envelope on too, then thats one thing.

If, on the other hand you're advertising a car purely to get a cheaper quote then thats another thing altogether.

I don't think anyone should be advertisng a car because i wouldn't trust the car to be correctly insured, whereas a van is more likely to be correctly insured.

If, like Courier Exchange, a brief description of what the job is, i. E envelope, small box, pallet, crate, then there's no reason to put car at all. That way you all know what room you have left in your van, so you know whether you can quote or not.

Couriers don't drive cars, they drive vans

And just this morning a car job was posted for a Newcastle to Somerset 344 miles...

Envelope in van at 70pplm or envelope in car at 46pplm? has the customer REALLY phoned a courier company and expected a CAR?

Thats a very long way to drive if your not doing this job for a living.

46pplm is NOT a working wage

46pplm is NOT a working wage

I'm not, and never will be, here to speak for him, but as Andy Stevens always says on this forum, he posts stuff so people can give their best price. He's not dictating the prices. By the time he posts on here, he's already had no joy from his own couriers, so he's looking for a more open market price from the mtvan members.

So as with any Vendor, for any service type requested, get in touch with your best price and see what happens.

Couriers don't drive cars, they drive vans

And with very few exceptions, that's what they get on mtvan.

I can't see a problem with a car for long distance same day work they are far better than a van, I can average 60mpg I have cruise, climate control and a quiet comfy car, if you dont like the prices then dont bid on them, if somebody does it for nowt then its there problem, I can remember the warm days in the van with no air con you get out feeling knackred and sweating like a pig, if you want your van then carry on, 80% of my jobs I did would fit in a car so who needs a van

Why don't you just take 'car' off of the vehicle options, and just have small van or motorbike instead?

mtvan.com Ltd said:

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This site is called mtvan but just seems to be car jobs on here.

Well that's the bit you can do something about more easily than us.

We have been told often enough "you'll have to tighten up who you let on here before I sell my work on mtvan".

Well we've gone a long way in that direction, and are continuing with the effort.

So all it needs now is for people who have been reluctant in the past to post work here to post everything they have got for a couple of months and see the benefits of having a good value alternative exchange.

I tried about a week ago. 3 jobs posted and only 1 phone call.

I tried about a week ago. 3 jobs posted and only 1 phone call.

This is why I say invest the time to do it for 2 months. It always takes a little while for people to wake up to the new Vendor and the new work, and change their behaviour.

Not ideal, I accept, but that's the feedback from other Vendors.

People use cars in central london like the toyata prius etc because they don't pay 'c' charge for hybrids Docs only jobs are fine for cars as bikes over long distances are not practical,(here comes the Idid 1000miles in a day comments!) We all know what the problem is so would it not be fairer to have a 'block vendor' setting like on Courier Exchange? I have been able to block the 45 and 60 days brigade and some people I don't wish to do business with, People can then vote with their mice!

Why don't you just take 'car' off of the vehicle options, and just have small van or motorbike instead?

The Vendors like all the vehicle types to be there, even if a few couriers don't.

As I say, if people don't like the Car work, they can filter it out from their results.

If they filter out car work, then they will have less to moan about.

Springer Express Couriers said:

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People use cars in central london like the toyata prius etc because they don't pay 'c' charge for hybrids Docs only jobs are fine for cars as bikes over long distances are not practical,(here comes the Idid 1000miles in a day comments!) We all know what the problem is so would it not be fairer to have a 'block vendor' setting like on Courier Exchange? I have been able to block the 45 and 60 days brigade and some people I don't wish to do business with, People can then vote with their mice!

A ridiculous comment from I imagine a non biker!

Bikes are certainly NOT impracticable, carry more than most imagine, get the job done far far faster, BUT again as most seem to think, are NOT cheaper than doing the job in a small van!

a 'block vendor' setting

Yes, we have this good idea on our list.

Springer Express Couriers said:

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People use cars in central london like the toyata prius etc because they don't pay 'c' charge for hybrids Docs only jobs are fine for cars as bikes over long distances are not practical,(here comes the Idid 1000miles in a day comments!) We all know what the problem is so would it not be fairer to have a 'block vendor' setting like on Courier Exchange? I have been able to block the 45 and 60 days brigade and some people I don't wish to do business with, People can then vote with their mice!

Known fact! bikes deliver smaller items far quicker than cars/small vans . Example :left my diesel cards at home recently and to get them delivered to me 200 miles away car 4 hour's + and by bike 3 hour max cost car £175, bike £160.00 so in comparison not a great deal of saving except the time was shorter and customer was kept happier(me)

Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

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Springer Express Couriers said:

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People use cars in central london like the toyata prius etc because they don't pay 'c' charge for hybrids Docs only jobs are fine for cars as bikes over long distances are not practical,(here comes the Idid 1000miles in a day comments!) We all know what the problem is so would it not be fairer to have a 'block vendor' setting like on Courier Exchange? I have been able to block the 45 and 60 days brigade and some people I don't wish to do business with, People can then vote with their mice!

Known fact! bikes deliver smaller items far quicker than cars/small vans . Example :left my diesel cards at home recently and to get them delivered to me 200 miles away car 4 hour's + and by bike 3 hour max cost car £175, bike £160.00 so in comparison not a great deal of saving except the time was shorter and customer was kept happier(me)

Exactly but we charge MORE for a bike than a car!

Car V Bike: Fuel consumption about the same. Tyres 4 car tyres approx £300. 2 Bike tyres £300 Car servicing approx every 20k, Bike approx 5K

I could go on :)

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

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Springer Express Couriers said:

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People use cars in central london like the toyata prius etc because they don't pay 'c' charge for hybrids Docs only jobs are fine for cars as bikes over long distances are not practical,(here comes the Idid 1000miles in a day comments!) We all know what the problem is so would it not be fairer to have a 'block vendor' setting like on Courier Exchange? I have been able to block the 45 and 60 days brigade and some people I don't wish to do business with, People can then vote with their mice!

Known fact! bikes deliver smaller items far quicker than cars/small vans . Example :left my diesel cards at home recently and to get them delivered to me 200 miles away car 4 hour's + and by bike 3 hour max cost car £175, bike £160.00 so in comparison not a great deal of saving except the time was shorter and customer was kept happier(me)

Exactly but we charge MORE for a bike than a car!

Car V Bike: Fuel consumption about the same. Tyres 4 car tyres approx £300. 2 Bike tyres £300 Car servicing approx every 20k, Bike approx 5K

I could go on :)

It's Friday and things are fine so here's a big well done to all the Biker's out there from an X biker

I have nothing against couriers using cars as long as they are couriers using cars, and that's the problem. Too many supposed couriers are using their cars without the correct insurance, and if in an accident delivering a package their insurance would be VOID. That and the undoubted lack of Good in Transit allows them to undercut bonafide couriers. The majority of Vendors that use cars are doing so for that very reason, to get a cheaper price, and the majority of car users do so for the same reason... To undercut those that are legal.

Those that use the excuse "they asked for a car so thats what we gave them" are deliberately missing the point. They ask for a car, because you advertise them as cheaper, and they are cheaper because they are not insured properly. The introduction of cars on anyone's website is a relatively new phenomina, and it's got diddly squat to do with "trends" or any other bollox spouted by you know who. Its to undercut you and me.

Just one reason why our industry needs standardising

''A ridiculous comment from I imagine a non biker!''

Bikes are certainly NOT impracticable, carry more than most imagine, get the job done far far faster, BUT again as most seem to think, are NOT cheaper than doing the job in a small van!

My point exactly Rapid light transport! They are not practical!

If by non biker you mean I currently don't own or ride a bike then you are correct, But I have City and Guilds in Motorcycle engineering, Datatool, Meta, Acumen and Spyball approved fitter, Class 1 and 2 MOT tester and 30 years experience in the motorcycle trade! I have ridden everything from a raleigh runabout to a Boss Hog! I got fed up with Muppets riding like twats and then whining about they were a victim! Bikes are good at city short hops but a trip to Scotland? you can keep it!

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08449 Ok, just to maybe clear a point the above as taken from a reputable insurance company, If insurance company's recognise the use of and requirement of "car couriers" the industry has to agree that the need is there,

MOVE ON!

Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

Known fact! bikes deliver smaller items far quicker than cars/small vans . Example :left my diesel cards at home recently and to get them delivered to me 200 miles away car 4 hour's + and by bike 3 hour max cost car £175, bike £160.00 so in comparison not a great deal of saving except the time was shorter and customer was kept happier(me)

You got that cheap for a bike @ 80pplm...

I think it was average but glad with the result

Springer Express Couriers said:

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Bikes are good at city short hops but a trip to Scotland? you can keep it!

I've done more than my fair share of trips to Scotland, often leaving the small hours or returning in them. There's nothing impractical about it. I have have got up to Glasgow during the day in times completely unachievable in a van

When a vendor lists a job as a car job, they are quite simply giving any prospective quoter an idea of the size of the item to be transported.

If there are any courier companies on here posting car jobs in the hope of getting lower quotes, just don't give them the satisfaction. Either quote your usual price, or just don't quote.

If there are any couriers on here that would accept a lower rate just because they are in a car then they are idiots that will be out of business within a year.

Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

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Known fact! bikes deliver smaller items far quicker than cars/small vans . Example :left my diesel cards at home recently and to get them delivered to me 200 miles away car 4 hour's + and by bike 3 hour max cost car £175, bike £160.00 so in comparison not a great deal of saving except the time was shorter and customer was kept happier(me)

Did you pay the bike courier Cash on Delivery? Would that be happier because you were able to use your diesel cards to buy cheaper diesel?

Gas Motorcycle Couriers said:

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Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

Known fact! bikes deliver smaller items far quicker than cars/small vans . Example :left my diesel cards at home recently and to get them delivered to me 200 miles away car 4 hour's + and by bike 3 hour max cost car £175, bike £160.00 so in comparison not a great deal of saving except the time was shorter and customer was kept happier(me)

You got that cheap for a bike @ 80pplm...

One thing Gary, charging that for a bike to 'customers' means they will not last long :)

It amazes me how many just have no idea

Hope your doing OK? catch up soon

I am quite happy using a properly insured car/ estate car for the appropriate consignment and typically expect to pay between 70 and 75 pplm - where a van is a necessity (palletised load) then I both charge and expect to pay slightly more - around 4 pplm extra.

However for an urgent job I always prefer a car because I know that it is less likely that the driver will get stopped for speeding on a dual carriageway.

There is only 1 diesel model of the current Berlingo range (625 L1) which is under 2000kg gross weight and therefore may be considered by some to use 70 mph as it's dual carriageway limit. Even then there is much confusion over what is a "car-derived van under 2000kgs".

Some would say that only an AstraVan or ClioVan would fit that description and neither of those can fit a standard pallet loaded by forklift.

My own Volvo 2004 V70 (with non-dating plates ) has more load capacity than either of the aforementioned and can actually accommodate a 10ft x 17ft flat packed garage.

021 SAMEDAY said:

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I am quite happy using a properly insured car/ estate car for the appropriate consignment and typically expect to pay between 70 and 75 pplm - where a van is a necessity (palletised load) then I both charge and expect to pay slightly more - around 4 pplm extra.

However for an urgent job I always prefer a car because I know that it is less likely that the driver will get stopped for speeding on a dual carriageway.

There is only 1 diesel model of the current Berlingo range (625 L1) which is under 2000kg gross weight and therefore may be considered by some to use 70 mph as it's dual carriageway limit. Even then there is much confusion over what is a "car-derived van under 2000kgs".

Some would say that only an AstraVan or ClioVan would fit that description and neither of those can fit a standard pallet loaded by forklift.

My own Volvo 2004 V70 (with non-dating plates ) has more load capacity than either of the aforementioned and can actually accommodate a 10ft x 17ft flat packed garage.

That's all well and good, unless as it seems many drivers potter about to save fuel, go out of their way to save a couple of pence finding cheap petrol stations, if only they charged an extra couple of pence per mile in the first place!

Cheap usually means poor quality even in this game!

Dennis said:

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Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

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Known fact! bikes deliver smaller items far quicker than cars/small vans . Example :left my diesel cards at home recently and to get them delivered to me 200 miles away car 4 hour's + and by bike 3 hour max cost car £175, bike £160.00 so in comparison not a great deal of saving except the time was shorter and customer was kept happier(me)

Did you pay the bike courier Cash on Delivery? Would that be happier because you were able to use your diesel cards to buy cheaper diesel?

As I don't work in the u.k and leave all that type of work to those who do I need my cards. As for the price for those who worry so much it was from a courier that possibly most who ride/ operate bikes has and will work for me in the past and again "just to clarify " for those who worry about the way I do business.

I run a car and a van when needed, I can honestly say I have never taken a job for the car from this site. I am heavily involved in the industry and the car is used for a specific contract. I agree that the calibre of jobs offered to car drivers is poor and I guess the vendor offering these jobs is only doing so to cut the price to the bone. This of course does not help the van drivers and is diluting the value of this site.

021 SAMEDAY said:

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I am quite happy using a properly insured car/ estate car for the appropriate consignment and typically expect to pay between 70 and 75 pplm - where a van is a necessity (palletised load) then I both charge and expect to pay slightly more - around 4 pplm extra.

However for an urgent job I always prefer a car because I know that it is less likely that the driver will get stopped for speeding on a dual carriageway.

There is only 1 diesel model of the current Berlingo range (625 L1) which is under 2000kg gross weight and therefore may be considered by some to use 70 mph as it's dual carriageway limit. Even then there is much confusion over what is a "car-derived van under 2000kgs".

Some would say that only an AstraVan or ClioVan would fit that description and neither of those can fit a standard pallet loaded by forklift.

My own Volvo 2004 V70 (with non-dating plates ) has more load capacity than either of the aforementioned and can actually accommodate a 10ft x 17ft flat packed garage.

I totally agree, I used the VW Passat Estate which I have now replaced with an Audi A6 estate, both these vehicles suited the specific loads I carry, and are more economical to run than many of the vans available. If I need a van for a palletised job then I sub out the work or hire one in.

To get the best from this job it really is about fitting the load to the most appropriate vehicle which is why we have in house an estate car (53+mpg), a 1200kg payload Vivaro (39+mpg), 2 x 1500kg payload (28 -32 mpg Renault Masters and a 25 mpg 6 standard pallet space 1200 kg 4 metre long 17 cubic metre Renault Master Curtainsder and also regular subbies with a car, small vans, LWB Sprinters, 7.5 tonne curtainsiders and an 18 tonne curtainsider.

If needed I get a quote from a helicopter airfield less than 4 miles from me but no job I have ever quoted for has ever actually been that urgent once I have given the quotation.

In general the key to getting the job done quickly is locating a vehicle & driver near to the pick up point to minimise dead collection mileage. If the nearest available motorbike is an hour away and a car is 15 minutes away i know which I would choose unless I was needing a rapid response across a city.

Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

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Dennis said:

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Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

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Known fact! bikes deliver smaller items far quicker than cars/small vans . Example :left my diesel cards at home recently and to get them delivered to me 200 miles away car 4 hour's + and by bike 3 hour max cost car £175, bike £160.00 so in comparison not a great deal of saving except the time was shorter and customer was kept happier(me)

Did you pay the bike courier Cash on Delivery? Would that be happier because you were able to use your diesel cards to buy cheaper diesel?

As I don't work in the u.k and leave all that type of work to those who do I need my cards. As for the price for those who worry so much it was from a courier that possibly most who ride/ operate bikes has and will work for me in the past and again "just to clarify " for those who worry about the way I do business.

My question was tongue-in-cheek. I was smiling at the idea of paying (the price of over 100 litres of diesel) to get fuel cards delivered, as opposed to using cash to buy fuel until you could get home to put the cards back into your wallet, not questioning the use of cards.

Rapid Movements Europe Ltd said:

---------- As for the price for those who worry so much it was from a courier that possibly most who ride/ operate bikes has and will work for me in the past and again "just to clarify " for those who worry about the way I do business.

Essentially although you were the end user you were also trade, so 80pplm is a hell of a lot better than some are paying as subby....even on here!

Dennis said:

My question was tongue-in-cheek. I was smiling at the idea of paying (the price of over 100 litres of diesel) to get fuel cards delivered, as opposed to using cash to buy fuel until you could get home to put the cards back into your wallet, not questioning the use of cards.

I did kinda think this too

Guys once again we have gone off topic.

My point is this. Jobs are being advertised for cars based on PRICE and not Space in vehicle. That means any job advertised on mtvan for a car is expecting a driver to carry the goods for a price WELL below the price charged for small van. Often 46pplm or below

Now correct me if im wrong but if a job is advertised on this site its because a job has been taken by a vendor who is unable to cover it by

1. His own team of drivers
2. His usual calls to subbies have proved fruitless

Therefore it is a job that HAS to be covered so as not to let the customer down.

So why is that job NOT ATTRACTING A PREMIUM rather than going to the cheapest bidder cos you have to cover it at any cost..dont you? or have i missed something?

And if you as the vendor are willing to sub a screamer out to a random driver in a car for the lowest rate then your company should be on Gumtree or Anyvan where all the cash in hand drivers work from.

Often 46pplm or below

This is the point (in my humble opinion) that you are "missing".

I'm not aware of any way to dictate prices on sites like this, below what people are prepared to do the job for, whatever vehicle type anyone chooses to specify on the job.

Mr G Courier Service.Current holder of mtvan courier of the week and the true voice of reason. said:

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Jobs are being advertised for cars based on PRICE and not Space in vehicle. That means any job advertised on mtvan for a car is expecting a driver to carry the goods for a price WELL below the price charged for small van. Often 46pplm or below

Now correct me if im wrong but if a job is advertised on this site its because a job has been taken by a vendor who is unable to cover it by

1. His own team of drivers
2. His usual calls to subbies have proved fruitless

Therefore it is a job that HAS to be covered so as not to let the customer down.

or have i missed something?

Your first paragraph seems pretty accurate, but the rest implies you have been reading AND BELIEVING his posts. :-))

Personally speaking, although i run a LWB Sprinter, i'm quite happy to deliver anything from an envelope to pallets to a full load of handball stuff, it matters not to me, but i'll only consider it if the price was acceptable to do it, which means that any job advertised as a car job, i wouldn't even consider it anymore, because the cynical side of me is pretty sure it's only going to be given to someone who has put a rock bottom price in. If the vendors are only paying 45pplm, either they're pricing the job wrong or profiteering

If i was to get a minicab/taxi anywhere, i'd expect to pay around £1.50 per mile, so why are car drivers only getting/charging 45pplm? Surely they'd be better off becoming a minicab/taxi driver instead

Addams UK Express said:

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Personally speaking, although i run a LWB Sprinter, i'm quite happy to deliver anything from an envelope to pallets to a full load of handball stuff, it matters not to me, but i'll only consider it if the price was acceptable to do it, which means that any job advertised as a car job, i wouldn't even consider it anymore, because the cynical side of me is pretty sure it's only going to be given to someone who has put a rock bottom price in. If the vendors are only paying 45pplm, either they're pricing the job wrong or profiteering

If i was to get a minicab/taxi anywhere, i'd expect to pay around £1.50 per mile, so why are car drivers only getting/charging 45pplm? Surely they'd be better off becoming a minicab/taxi driver instead

Yet again people seem hung up on what profit a vendor makes! In short it is nothing do do with anyone else what they charge their customer. If it doesn't suit don't do the job, it is really very simple. The reason car drivers are being paid a 'paltry' sum is due to the fact that people accept that price! The reason for low rates is down to drivers who have no idea how to run a business.

Addams UK Express said: Surely they'd be better off becoming a minicab/taxi driver instead

Quite stringent checks apparently? and vehicle requires two mots a year

The difference is we dont have idiots being sick in our vans at weekends, so saves a cleaning bill.

Mr G Courier Service.Current holder of mtvan courier of the week and the true voice of reason. said:

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Guys once again we have gone off topic.

My point is this. Jobs are being advertised for cars based on PRICE and not Space in vehicle. That means any job advertised on mtvan for a car is expecting a driver to carry the goods for a price WELL below the price charged for small van. Often 46pplm or below

Now correct me if im wrong but if a job is advertised on this site its because a job has been taken by a vendor who is unable to cover it by

1. His own team of drivers
2. His usual calls to subbies have proved fruitless

Therefore it is a job that HAS to be covered so as not to let the customer down.

So why is that job NOT ATTRACTING A PREMIUM rather than going to the cheapest bidder cos you have to cover it at any cost..dont you? or have i missed something?

And if you as the vendor are willing to sub a screamer out to a random driver in a car for the lowest rate then your company should be on Gumtree or Anyvan where all the cash in hand drivers work from.

A valid point Mr G, and here's another for you to muse over. If you cover a job on this or anyother exchange site on behalf of another courier company, you are helping said company to keep its customer happy. I. E you're helping a competitor keep his account with his customer, therefore his customer is less likely to want to change courier companies, meaning you are less likely to get new customers.

Why do customers move from one courier company to another? Price is one, but availability is equally important. That therefore means that everytime you quote on a job from a vendor, that job is less likely to come to you direct from the customer because you have added to the vendors driver availability, and at a lower price than you would have charged had the customer called you.

So as Mr G says, how come rates are where they are, afterall if no one "bids" then the vendors customer may well come to you anyway

Was this site not set up to provide quality drivers for small independent courier companies to exchange work at a fair market price?

So why has it become another Shiply/anyvan/C.E that allows rates to fall thus attracting a fly by night driver and ***ghost courier companies where jobs are auctioned off to the lowest bidder and price becomes more important than quality of service

Those other sites i mention are only interested in securing the lowest price from the lowest quote. I would like to see jobs posted with a minimum price offered subject to size of vehicle.

There are many advantages to this and if you have read my previous post fully you will understand the logic.

I have read many posts where a vendor has complained of not receiving a single call for a job posted. This could be down to a few simple reasons such as location /time/distance. But then there will be drivers whom look at the vendor and say to themselves " why bother, its just another cheap job from the same source" If that vendor has offered a small van 100 mile job with a minimum payment of £65 then both parties know where they stand and the job should attract more interest and be covered at a fair price to both.

REMEMBER :The job posted has to be covered at all cost

For a driver to be allowed on the site requires verification and all forms of lawful documentation plus a payment to mtvan to be able to see what work is available .Yet a new courier company sign up can post a job with no checks of legitimacy. That has happened many times since i have been here and i was one of the guys burned by the legendary AET scam .

Unfortunately the site runs like a chicken and egg not knowing whom to please ..no work = no pro members -no pro members = no work posted and so on til we got to this state of affairs with 90%of jobs for car owners or anyone willing to sell their soul

But back to my original point mtvan should be a place where drivers network with courier companies build up a reputation with good service /communication and a healthy feedback system. A place where rates are offered based on a good job that keeps all parties happy .I have done that and thank all the companies on here who have placed their trust in me and have paid me a fair price.

REMEMBER :The job posted has to be covered at all cost

..so lets see a fixed price offered for the job rather than the onus on the driver to bid for it . After all isn't the site making sure that all drivers are verified to the highest standard? And surely the courier company should be willing to price a job at least the rate he would offer his own employed drivers for a good service?

So if my idea of fixed minimum charge was implemented what would the going rate for ..

CAR= 60-70pplm ? M/Bike 60-70pplm ? SMALL VAN 65-80pplm? discuss

*** ghost courier companies work from office or home with no employed drivers. Often fronting what looks like a fully operational company with many staff. They take commission of up to 50% from work given and posted. The driver does the work while the company takes the profit

Was this site not set up to provide quality drivers for small independent courier companies to exchange work at a fair market price?

I would say: "this site was set up to provide quality drivers for courier companies to exchange work at a fair market price." So pretty much, yes.

So why has it become another Shiply/anyvan/C.E that allows rates to fall thus attracting a fly by night driver

Well of course I would argue that it definitely hasn't. There are no end-users on here. We have for months now been working to ensure that there are no fly by night drivers on here. You only have to look through the Newsfeed or the Directory to see that.

I would like to see jobs posted with a minimum price offered subject to size of vehicle.

I think the very essence of "market price" (see above) is that we don't try to set prices. Companies and individuals are free to agree their own terms. So I disagree with you there, as I can't see it working.

a vendor has complained of not receiving a single call for a job posted

This does happen, and I always say to new Vendors, post often enough for people to notice what you're doing, wake up to the new work, and start making offers to the new Vendor.

why bother, its just another cheap job from the same source

This is a fair point, and this is why I say to those who post empty and post on the forum here, but choose not to post their work, please help is make mtvan more balanced in terms of the work on here. If you have some work, please post it here.

If that vendor has offered a small van 100 mile job with a minimum payment of £65 then both parties know where they stand and the job should attract more interest and be covered at a fair price to both.

I do suggest to vendors that if it suits their way of doing business they could suggest a pay rate when posting work. I wouldn't want to go beyond that.

Yet a new courier company sign up can post a job with no checks of legitimacy.

I'm glad you mentioned that. It will very soon be "no confirmed postal address = no posting work" on mtvan, to make it impossible to join and post work on the same day.

Also, we now call everyone who wants to join, after they join but before they can use the site in any way at all, to check who they are and what they do.

So there most definitely are checks of Vendor legitimacy, and we're getting tougher still.

no pro members

Not sure that's quite right.

90% of jobs for car owners

Nor this. There are jobs posted that are possible to be done in a "Car", but not 90%.

And as I have said repeatedly on here, and say again now, there are hardly any car drivers on mtvan, so the designation of the job as a "Car" job shouldn't be seen as an indication that the couriers on mtvan are fly by night car drivers.

mtvan should be a place where drivers network with courier companies build up a reputation with good service /communication and a healthy feedback system.

With you all the way on that point. Anyone checking out your own Feedback would surely agree too.

I have done that and thank all the companies on here who have placed their trust in me and have paid me a fair price.

And I'm very pleased for you and everyone else who has got work, and/or regular customers from mtvan.

But I don't see setting minimum prices as the way forward. The majority of Vendors (and potential vendors) I speak to say they all they ever want is good quality couriers, fully insured, with verifiable details and a sound van, who are happy to do a good professional job at a fair price.

I think any of us seeing a 'car' job, automatically see 'cheap', maybe if the price was also posted it might make the more cynical amongst us more willing to call in

I think any of us seeing a 'car' job, automatically see 'cheap', maybe if the price was also posted it might make the more cynical amongst us more willing to call in

I think this is a good point for every Vendor to consider.

As I said previously, I'm happy to take anything in my van, and I'll help anyone out of the brown stuff, but I can't run at 45pplm

at 45pplm

Where does this figure come from?

Addams UK Express said:

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I think any of us seeing a 'car' job, automatically see 'cheap', maybe if the price was also posted it might make the more cynical amongst us more willing to call in

Exactly my point! I read car job.. Then delete.

Whats the point in quoting when you already know its posted to be offered at the lowest possible bidder

mtvan.com Ltd said:

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I think any of us seeing a 'car' job, automatically see 'cheap', maybe if the price was also posted it might make the more cynical amongst us more willing to call in

I think this is a good point for every Vendor to consider.

So your suggesting that vendors should add alongside car job" not cheap"? Or rather like i said originally offer the job at a fixed price rather than open to offers

mtvan.com Ltd said:

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I think the very essence of "market price" (see above) is that we don't try to set prices. Companies and individuals are free to agree their own terms. So I disagree with you there, as I can't see it working.

ebay started off as an auction site only .

As a seller on ebay you can offer the goods to auction or offer goods at a fixed price .so why not here?

If a job posted on here is non-urgent then that could be posted as an offer to quote.

Whereas a screamer should be offered at a fixed price because of the nature of the job. Anyone then offering their services to the vendor could then win the job as the feedback system favours those with previous work completed

Addams UK Express said:

If i was to get a minicab/taxi anywhere, i'd expect to pay around £1.50 per mile, so why are car drivers only getting/charging 45pplm? Surely they'd be better off becoming a minicab/taxi driver instead

Mr G Courier Service.Current holder of mtvan courier of the week and the true voice of reason. said:

*** ghost courier companies work from office or home with no employed drivers. Often fronting what looks like a fully operational company with many staff. They take commission of up to 50% from work given and posted. The driver does the work while the company takes the profit

I often post jobs on here as "car" or "estate car" jobs as they can easily be carried on the front passenger seat.

However I am sure that you, Mr G., will vouch for my existence...

One of our sem-regular " car " jobs involves a round trip of 567 miles and is currently paying £193.10. Were the job to consist of palletised goods under 500kgs with a maximum overall height of less than 1 metre then we would be paying £200.25. But of course should I be unable to cover this through our normal contacts or our own vehicles then I would post the job on here and see what response I get. If someone bid me £130.00 to do the job then I would consider them and conduct a short telephone interview. Equally were I to get a bid of £255 from a Sprinter O/D then were that my only option I would understand why that rate was being offered and in the interest of good customer service I may well use the Sprinter. Sometimes you just have to look at the bigger picture and if that means losing money on the odd job just to get it covered then so be it (But not too often).

So your suggesting that vendors should add alongside car job" not cheap"? Or rather like i said originally offer the job at a fixed price rather than open to offers

No, I'm suggesting that if enough couriers think the same way as you do, ie pointless offering on "Car" jobs, then it may be worth their while posting as "Small Van" or even "Car/Small Van" as they may get better results.

So my fellow owner drivers... How do you view car jobs which are posted to attract cheap offers?

Is there a place for them on this site?

Maybe separate sections for cheap jobs and regular paying work? At least we'd know where we stood, or even advising in the post what sort of job/price is expected, if it's an el cheapo on offer, say so

Mr G Courier Service.Current holder of mtvan courier of the week and the true voice of reason. said:

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So my fellow owner drivers... How do you view car jobs which are posted to attract cheap offers?

Is there a place for them on this site?

I just look at the forums now. I had 6 months free on here and did not quote on many jobs because the vast majority were retail/car jobs. The ones I did quote on I never got and they all seemed to be from Courier Expert.

I tend not to quote for car jobs on C. Ex. unless it is a backload. Car jobs leave the impression that it needs to be done cheaply. Is a car any cheaper to run than a small van if all of the correct insurances are in place?

majority were retail/car jobs.

The retail car jobs are no longer listed on mtvan.

The main supplier of car jobs automatically conjures up 'cheap' but there are others who appreciate we are not fools.

I am not sure where the idea comes from that a human being at Courier Expert is posting jobs on mtvan and deliberately marking them as car jobs, for the sole purpose of attracting cheap bids! In fact, this could not be further from the truth......

The fact is, there is no human input to posting our jobs other than the click of one single button, with zero opportunity to edit the job in any way from it's original spec. (The owner of mtvan can verify this from a recent visit to our offices).

In case I have confused anyone, this is how it works. When we decide to post a job into mtvan, we have a button to click on in our system, which automatically posts it into mtvan, in exactly the same format as it was booked by the customer. We have no opportunity to alter any job from small van to a car or in any other way, we only have 1 button to press, which sends it exactly how it was booked.

Another point, when we sub a job to an mtvan van courier, it is because none of our own drivers can cover it. We never post on here to seek a lower price, we are looking for a courier to cover our work. All serious bids will be considered. So if you see a car job, but you have a van, then quote us your van rate. We will consider any fair offer which gets the job done - it's as simple as that :)

Andy

Not sure what any of that has to do with anything. The reason your customers put "car" when booking is because you have added car to your list of available vehicles, and have done so at a lower rate than a van. Its simple maths, if you offer a cheaper alternative, the customer will undoubtedly select it. You, i and the rest of us are well aware why you have introduced a car as a type of vehicle for your customers and it has nothing to do with "because thats what the customer wants", more to do with the cost. You don't check the validity of their insurance, and the suggestion is that the reason you offer a lower rate for a car is down to the likelihood they are indeed not insured correctly.

That is the problem many of us have with car bookings, as well you know

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Not sure what any of that has to do with anything. The reason your customers put "car" when booking is because you have added car to your list of available vehicles, and have done so at a lower rate than a van. Its simple maths, if you offer a cheaper alternative, the customer will undoubtedly select it. You, i and the rest of us are well aware why you have introduced a car as a type of vehicle for your customers and it has nothing to do with "because thats what the customer wants", more to do with the cost. You don't check the validity of their insurance, and the suggestion is that the reason you offer a lower rate for a car is down to the likelihood they are indeed not insured correctly.

That is the problem many of us have with car bookings, as well you know

The price we charge our customers is irrelevant, as far as mtvan work is concerned.

When we sub a job to an mtvan van courier, it is because none of our own couriers can cover it. We never post on here to seek a lower price, we are simply looking for a courier to cover our work. All serious bids are considered. So if anyone see's a car job, but has a van, then quote us your van rate. We will consider any fair offer which gets the job done - it's as simple as that :)

Andy

Why does a car job SAMEDAY drop to ECONOMY within 10 mins. Once the job is booked with the customer is this to achieve a lower bid or to increase the profit.

mtvan.com Ltd said:

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majority were retail/car jobs.

The retail car jobs are no longer listed on mtvan.

How come a job has been listed just today?

PW Courier Services said:

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mtvan.com Ltd said:

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majority were retail/car jobs.

The retail car jobs are no longer listed on mtvan.

How come a job has been listed just today?

It's a sameday urgent, not retail car job

How come a job has been listed just today?

I looked and I can't see a "Retail Sameday" job?

PHAX said:

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Why does a car job SAMEDAY drop to ECONOMY within 10 mins. Once the job is booked with the customer is this to achieve a lower bid or to increase the profit.

We never post economy jobs on mtvan.

There is no need to, for an economy job to be booked, there must be a successful bid from one of our couriers,which the customer has accepted. Therefore the job is already covered and no need to look further afield for cover.

We never post economy jobs on mtvan. I never said it was on mtvan, but maybe best not posted here.

The way I see it is like this, forget about car jobs etc, market your own company with your spare time instead of debating the same old subjects and one day if you put enough effort into running your own business your might be busy enough and not have to have mtvan on 24/7 looking looking for jobs and debating which seems to get people nowhere.

Well said Gary. It gets to the point where a subject can, and has been talked to death...over and over. Just suck it up and do what you got to do to try and earn a living. Lets face it, and I'm sorry to say, there is no regulation in this industry, so there will be no change.

Whilst what you say is true Gary, due to the lack of knowledge of so many "newbies" that continue to come into this unregulated industry, the more information "out there" the better. There are many pitfalls to overcome, and as we are unlikely to become regulated anytime soon, forums remain the only way for some to find out what its all about.

Repetitive it may be, but thats more to do with the same issues being unresolved

Repetitive it may be, but thats more to do with the same issues being unresolved

Is there a solution?

Repetitive it sure is, and it appears too many axes are being ground over stuff that happened in the past, sorry to say that is not information at all.

Unfortunately what is being discussed isn't in the past, its happening now, and you are all aware of it. Due to this industry being unregulated, and with little to no standards of any kind needed to be a courier, or to tout yourself as a courier company, it remains a subject that takes up many pages of forums on this and other websites.

We can all self police by refusing to work below a certain mileage rate, by refusing to use anyone who has not got the correct insurance, but there are many who don't check and who aren't interested in checking, and it is those that are damaging our industry. Those, and the endless stream of so-called couriers who are not insured and are therefore able to undercut you.

And that's yet another excellent post by Mr Speed.

Lookslike Courier Exchange stopping cars from there site.

Just curious now, how can they stop cars from their site if the businesses/owner drivers etc are fully paid up and fully insured to do courier work but just because they choose to use a car they are going to be denied a living.

Fastback Parcel Solutions said:

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Just curious now, how can they stop cars from their site if the businesses/owner drivers etc are fully paid up and fully insured to do courier work but just because they choose to use a car they are going to be denied a living.

Think they are planning to stop any new member joining the exchange if they don't register a van or bike.

I have joined the 'big one' this week and see plenty of car jobs. I am sure most on there are happy to pay an acceptable price. Shocked to see all the 45 and 60 days end of month jobs.

Sorry Mr mtvan is this acceptable on here.

PHAX said:

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I have joined the 'big one' this week and see plenty of car jobs. I am sure most on there are happy to pay an acceptable price. Shocked to see all the 45 and 60 days end of month jobs.

Sorry Mr mtvan is this acceptable on here.

Yeah there is a lot of 45 and 60 days EOM, I stay well clear of them. I just can't give that much credit.

Fastback Parcel Solutions said:

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Just curious now, how can they stop cars from their site if the businesses/owner drivers etc are fully paid up and fully insured to do courier work but just because they choose to use a car they are going to be denied a living.

It is more about 'couriers' turning up in L reg Toyota Corolla estates and calling it a small van.

I do not see the issue with car jobs. Providing it is not a rust bucket and has all correct insurances then its no different to a small van. I often sub out car jobs, one of my customers sometimes prefers a car to a van.

I think the point is that the recruitment of car drivers suggests they do not have the relevant insurance, they have their "normal" car insurance and become "couriers" without the necessary insurance ugrade, thereby then able to undercut those that pay for proper courier insurance.

I Would bet an awful lot of money that if i checked car drivers working as couriers, a rather large percentage would not have courier insurance, and that is why they can undercut you

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I Would bet an awful lot of money that if i checked car drivers working as couriers, a rather large percentage would not have courier insurance, and that is why they can undercut you

Totally agree, last Saturday the wife got a parcel from Next, the guy turned up in an old freelander, got chatting to him and he only works for the 3 days a week for pocket money. No way on earth could that cover the cost of a courier.

Mr G Courier Service.Current holder of mtvan courier of the week and the true voice of reason. said:

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There seems to have been a precedent set since car jobs have been allowed to monopolise this site. A couple of other vendors have now started to offer jobs out for cars forcing rates down yet again

Call me a cynic but these jobs are not posted because the cargo is easily carried by car, they are posted because a precedent has been set and now others are jumping on the bandwagon.

These jobs encourage random drivers looking for extra work tax free. They are not jobs that can make a decent living wage for a properly certified professional driver therefore have no place on this site.

what started off as car jobs covering a maximum of 20 miles have now become regular long distance jobs such as Edinburgh to Leicester.

Now tell me how many "part-time"drivers in their Toyota Avensis would be willing and able to cover that distance?

mtvan is for vans!

Courier work for cars should either be priced the same as a small van or be advertised on Gumtree

You will not stop vendors "recruiting" part time car drivers without the relevant insurance, and subsequently able to undercut you all because of it, until our industry stops it from happening.

I don't think anyone has a problem with a courier using a car, the problem is about those that "play" at being a courier and don't have the relevant insurance.

Its illegal simple as that.

And there is no defence

Shed 5 has just announced they are to start registering H&R insurances.

Speed, i totally agree with you however my answer was in relation to the original posting. If i post a car job it is because either A. My customer has requested it Or B I know it will fit in a car

I never post a car job just to "Drive rates down" and i know of others who do the same.

I will add i have never posted a car job on here but i have and i do so quite regularly on another site... Its hard enough trying to get van work covered on here without involving cars!

£4 a week? Thats his insurance premium for car drivers up to £500 git

Did some one at mtvan say retail jobs are no longer listed on here? I think you should loll a little harder

In reply to car drivers insurance for courier, we have been in the transport game for some 20+ years, and the only hire and reward insurance for a car is as a taxi not courier so unless the car is plated and the driver badged with the relevant council then the car is not insured and the goods in transit is also invalid, so in all if you book a job with a car driver you are technically aiding and abetting a crime, but to some who gives a f**k as long as it is cheap and the job gets done.

As i've said before, advertising car jobs is a gimmick. It allows the recruitment of part time drivers, who by defintion are highly unlikely to have the correct insurance, and are therefore able to undercut real couriers. An argument used in the past is that its "just giving what the customer wants", but if you offer lower rates for cars, then the customer is obviously going to choose a car. If "what the customer wants" makes it illegal then it's an argument that just doesn't wash. I'd be interested to see, if both a car and a van were advertised at the same rate, whether cars were ever selected again!

Slh boston ltd said:

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In reply to car drivers insurance for courier, we have been in the transport game for some 20+ years, and the only hire and reward insurance for a car is as a taxi not courier so unless the car is plated and the driver badged with the relevant council then the car is not insured and the goods in transit is also invalid, so in all if you book a job with a car driver you are technically aiding and abetting a crime, but to some who gives a f**k as long as it is cheap and the job gets done.

We have had Hire and Reward on a car for courier work and it is different to Taxi insurance

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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As i've said before, advertising car jobs is a gimmick. It allows the recruitment of part time drivers, who by defintion are highly unlikely to have the correct insurance, and are therefore able to undercut real couriers. An argument used in the past is that its "just giving what the customer wants", but if you offer lower rates for cars, then the customer is obviously going to choose a car. If "what the customer wants" makes it illegal then it's an argument that just doesn't wash. I'd be interested to see, if both a car and a van were advertised at the same rate, whether cars were ever selected again!

Why is it a gimmick? I have run cars LEGALLY i might add, it is the mindset of others that need to change. I am only talking from MY experience and not of others on here. If i have a job that will fit into a car then i will advertise it as such if i see fit. The reason being that any given company may have the driver and a car available but may not have a small van available. Just because i say it will fit in a car doesnt mean i am looking for cheap and cheerful, infact quite the opposite as if anyone has ever run a car on their fleet then they would know to insure it properly will be at least the same as a small van if not more expensive.

Got a guy that calls around here a lot and he drives for Hermes using a Citroen C5 Estate, I asked him who his hire and reward insurance is with as I was interested doing a comparison, he insures with the RAC... Full courier insurance although I could find out how much he paid.

If this id the same vendor who set up the retail jobs. Ot should not be allowed as they are offered as cheeper alterative to vans.

Personally its the reason i didn't renew my subs. Having just bought a small van again which is properly insured. Im certain most of the car posters cars are not properly insured for hire and reward.

The category is is damaging the site. And making it look like a joke if i was a new small van operator then looking at this site id walk away as there isnt much work advertised for there small van the same applies for large van users..

If i rang up and asked for 60ppm + i doubt id get it. Many are still paying rates from 10 years ago subbies costs have gone up but still many only want to pay 50ppm.

Ok, so some of the posts state that car insurance as a courier is either exorbitantly high or non existent? And i presume that mtvan is doing its thing and making sure that ONLY legitimate drivers with the CORRECT insurances are allowed on site? But still 95% of jobs offered on THIS site are for car couriers.

As Rob from speed said "it is a gimmick from the vendor to bring in business at the expense of lowering rates for drivers" mtvan in allowing these jobs have used a very short sighted approach which is and will ultimately backfire in losing membership. Sure there will always be newbies on sites like these but im sure that those newbies enter the site looking for real work at a decent rate rather than car jobs that pay a pittance.

On that note let me give you Mr G final thought.

The expert claims that he only offers the car jobs on mtvan as an overflow to his own Hub because his current members cant cover them.

why ? Does he have more jobs than members?

or Is it more likely that they don't want to cover them either?

Rob from speed i relinquish my title as voice of reason (mtvan removed it.. Lol) and now pass the baton to you as i near the end of my association with mtvan.

Rob from speed "the true voice of reason"

So is this an Expert issue or a car issue??, I have never had any dealings with Courier Expert but i have had dealings with using a subbie with a car or indeed our own car on the fleet. To generalise and say all car advertised jobs are there as a gimmick or to reduce rates is rubbish, like i said i have no idea what Courier Expert are doing and nor do i wish to know, but if I advertise a job stating a car would be fine i am def not looking for cheap and cheerful or indeed illegal.

If a vendor puts a "car job" on the site purely to let anyone quoting thats its small enough to fit in a car, rather than a pallet that'll need a van, when said person looking already has a pallet on his van but can easily fit an envelope on too, then thats one thing.

Why not just put "Van" and be done with it?

If it fits in a car it'll fit in a van, but if it requires a van it wont fit in a car so just put VAN in the first place.

Those that keep saying "We dont put car for cheaper rates" sound like the TFL saying the Congestion Charge is not purely for revenue.

I think that the issue is the vendor does offer the car option as a cheeper option to a van so seeing a car job i would not bid on it. Thats not saying that would apply to all vendors

Nathan V Parry said:

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If a vendor puts a "car job" on the site purely to let anyone quoting thats its small enough to fit in a car, rather than a pallet that'll need a van, when said person looking already has a pallet on his van but can easily fit an envelope on too, then thats one thing.

Why not just put "Van" and be done with it?

If it fits in a car it'll fit in a van, but if it requires a van it wont fit in a car so just put VAN in the first place.

Those that keep saying "We dont put car for cheaper rates" sound like the TFL saying the Congestion Charge is not purely for revenue.

So a customer asks you to quote for 100k worth of business and states that cars will be required from time to time what would you do?

Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Nathan V Parry said:

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If a vendor puts a "car job" on the site purely to let anyone quoting thats its small enough to fit in a car, rather than a pallet that'll need a van, when said person looking already has a pallet on his van but can easily fit an envelope on too, then thats one thing.

Why not just put "Van" and be done with it?

If it fits in a car it'll fit in a van, but if it requires a van it wont fit in a car so just put VAN in the first place.

Those that keep saying "We dont put car for cheaper rates" sound like the TFL saying the Congestion Charge is not purely for revenue.

So a customer asks you to quote for 100k worth of business and states that cars will be required from time to time what would you do?

Simple use a bike... He will be so impressed with the speed of delivery he wont want a car again...

Whilst i may be guilty of tarring anyone in a car with the same brush, I stand by what i say. Advertising for car drivers to cover courier work DOES, whether you like it or not, introduce people in cars to dip their toe into the industry WITHOUT the relevant insurance.

Courier work does NOT work as a part time occupation, the costs of insurance don't make it economical, so how come we have a growing number of car drivers, and work advertised for cars? Simple, they are cheaper for vendors to pick, as they don't have the relevant insurance. It allows what has been termed the "lifestyle courier" to take work from bonafide couriers.

I can't see why any company, whether its a £1000 contact, £100,000 contract or £million contract would ever say they'd need cars from time to time. How can using a car ever be beneficial to the customer unless it's charge is cheaper than a van, unless said contract includes the need for personel to be moved as well, which is a different ballgame altogether.

I can understand those couriers that have estate cars, as many can't afford to have both, and sticking your family in a van when you're not working isn't really an option, but that's not what this is about. Its about those that are 2nd jobbing, coming into this industry using their "uninsured to be a courier" car a few nights a week.

Its about vendors who recruit car drivers because they can't guarantee work to real couriers. They have work, but not enough of it. We all have those kind of jobs, but i cover them using couriers, freelance couriers, insured couriers, couriers that join exchange sites that demand you are insured before you join.

I have nothing against couriers in cars, I do have a problem with car drivers calling themselves couriers.

I have a problem with vendors recruiting drivers on empty promises of work, misleading adverts that suggest more than they can give, at rates that are unworkable. It's taking advantage of them, and it takes work from real couriers such as you

Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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So is this an Expert issue or a car issue??, I have never had any dealings with Courier Expert but i have had dealings with using a subbie with a car or indeed our own car on the fleet. To generalise and say all car advertised jobs are there as a gimmick or to reduce rates is rubbish, like i said i have no idea what Courier Expert are doing and nor do i wish to know, but if I advertise a job stating a car would be fine i am def not looking for cheap and cheerful or indeed illegal.

All we are doing is simply advertising our overflow work on here and paying according to the quotes we receive from mtvan members.

If a car job needs covering and we have no offers, then if you come along and quote a small van rate for it (because you have a small van), then you get the job. It really doesn't get any more complicated than that :)

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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So is this an Expert issue or a car issue??, I have never had any dealings with Courier Expert but i have had dealings with using a subbie with a car or indeed our own car on the fleet. To generalise and say all car advertised jobs are there as a gimmick or to reduce rates is rubbish, like i said i have no idea what Courier Expert are doing and nor do i wish to know, but if I advertise a job stating a car would be fine i am def not looking for cheap and cheerful or indeed illegal.

All we are doing is simply advertising our overflow work on here and paying according to the quotes we receive from mtvan members.

If a car job needs covering and we have no offers, then if you come along and quote a small van rate for it (because you have a small van), then you get the job. It really doesn't get any more complicated than that :)

Andy

Andy, just out of interest do you expect any courier quoting a car price to be cheaper than quoting a small van price?

Anyone who joins the courier expert network gets 50% of the job. He advertises cars at £1.09 per miles, and small vans at £1.19 per mile. Therefore he expects people that sign up to his network to work for £0.55p per mile for a car and £0.60p per mile for a small van (and isn't ashamed of the fact, actually boasting that it's more than the Nationals)

AAlso the advert reads "Use your own car, people carrier or van"

It couldn't be more obvious what type of driver is being touted here. It's not couriers, its lifestyle drivers. If you told them insurance starts at £1500, would they really be interested covering a couple of jobs a week? No course they wouldn't. These types of drivers do NOT have courier insurance, they are recruited on the promise of guaranteed fulltime work, earning from £100 per day, and are charged a weekly fee for the privilege.

It's immoral, and extremely misleading.

No such guarantees can be made, no such earnings can be guaranteed, and certainly there cannot be a guarantee of fulltime work.

You can have a new career - one where you're in total control

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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I don't think there is much wrong with using a car, but what is wrong is expecting the price to be cheaper than a van, if people bid say 60 pence a mile for a car and 70 pence for a van then people are going to ask for a car rather than a van in that case if everybody quoted there small van prices then they would have to pay them, I don't think the issue is vehicle related but price related.

And that is precisely why cars have become a feature. There is an expectation of them being cheaper, indeed some courier companies advertise them as being cheaper as i stated in my previous thread.

Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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So is this an Expert issue or a car issue??, I have never had any dealings with Courier Expert but i have had dealings with using a subbie with a car or indeed our own car on the fleet. To generalise and say all car advertised jobs are there as a gimmick or to reduce rates is rubbish, like i said i have no idea what Courier Expert are doing and nor do i wish to know, but if I advertise a job stating a car would be fine i am def not looking for cheap and cheerful or indeed illegal.

All we are doing is simply advertising our overflow work on here and paying according to the quotes we receive from mtvan members.

If a car job needs covering and we have no offers, then if you come along and quote a small van rate for it (because you have a small van), then you get the job. It really doesn't get any more complicated than that :)

Andy

Andy, just out of interest do you expect any courier quoting a car price to be cheaper than quoting a small van price?

By the time we are looking at mtvan quotes, it means we are probably struggling a little for cover. The controllers don't have the slightest interest in the politics of van vs car couriers, so it makes no difference what basis anyone has used to produce their quote. Whoever can get the job done within time, at a sensible price, is all they are looking for.

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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So is this an Expert issue or a car issue??, I have never had any dealings with Courier Expert but i have had dealings with using a subbie with a car or indeed our own car on the fleet. To generalise and say all car advertised jobs are there as a gimmick or to reduce rates is rubbish, like i said i have no idea what Courier Expert are doing and nor do i wish to know, but if I advertise a job stating a car would be fine i am def not looking for cheap and cheerful or indeed illegal.

All we are doing is simply advertising our overflow work on here and paying according to the quotes we receive from mtvan members.

If a car job needs covering and we have no offers, then if you come along and quote a small van rate for it (because you have a small van), then you get the job. It really doesn't get any more complicated than that :)

Andy

Andy, just out of interest do you expect any courier quoting a car price to be cheaper than quoting a small van price?

By the time we are looking at mtvan quotes, it means we are probably struggling a little for cover. The controllers don't have the slightest interest in the politics of van vs car couriers, so it makes no difference what basis anyone has used to produce their quote. Whoever can get the job done within time, at a sensible price, is all they are looking for.

Andy

But in general would you expect a car job to be quoted less than a Small Van job?

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Anyone who joins the courier expert network gets 50% of the job. He advertises cars at £1.09 per miles, and small vans at £1.19 per mile. Therefore he expects people that sign up to his network to work for £0.55p per mile for a car and £0.60p per mile for a small van (and isn't ashamed of the fact, actually boasting that it's more than the Nationals)

AAlso the advert reads "Use your own car, people carrier or van"

It couldn't be more obvious what type of driver is being touted here. It's not couriers, its lifestyle drivers. If you told them insurance starts at £1500, would they really be interested covering a couple of jobs a week? No course they wouldn't. These types of drivers do NOT have courier insurance, they are recruited on the promise of guaranteed fulltime work, earning from £100 per day, and are charged a weekly fee for the privilege.

It's immoral, and extremely misleading.

No such guarantees can be made, no such earnings can be guaranteed, and certainly there cannot be a guarantee of fulltime work.

You can have a new career - one where you're in total control

That ad was posted on the 24th (yesterday) and was an error from fish4, it's obviously wrong and out of date, because the membership pricing is wrong.. I am told this will be corrected by lunchtime.

Just to correct a few other misinterpretations... Car couriers get either 55p or 60p per mile depending on what type of membership level they have chosen. Small Van couriers get either 60p or 66p.

Where have you read we guarantee £100 a day, or have you just made that up to make your post sound dramatic? Also, where is the guarantee of full time work, have you made that up too?

I think the fish4 advert even states 'ad hoc courier work'

Anyway Mr Speed, i know you have only said the above to wind me up, so no need to reply, I already know what your answer will be :)

Andy

Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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So is this an Expert issue or a car issue??, I have never had any dealings with Courier Expert but i have had dealings with using a subbie with a car or indeed our own car on the fleet. To generalise and say all car advertised jobs are there as a gimmick or to reduce rates is rubbish, like i said i have no idea what Courier Expert are doing and nor do i wish to know, but if I advertise a job stating a car would be fine i am def not looking for cheap and cheerful or indeed illegal.

All we are doing is simply advertising our overflow work on here and paying according to the quotes we receive from mtvan members.

If a car job needs covering and we have no offers, then if you come along and quote a small van rate for it (because you have a small van), then you get the job. It really doesn't get any more complicated than that :)

Andy

Andy, just out of interest do you expect any courier quoting a car price to be cheaper than quoting a small van price?

By the time we are looking at mtvan quotes, it means we are probably struggling a little for cover. The controllers don't have the slightest interest in the politics of van vs car couriers, so it makes no difference what basis anyone has used to produce their quote. Whoever can get the job done within time, at a sensible price, is all they are looking for.

Andy

But in general would you expect a car job to be quoted less than a Small Van job?

Honest answer - i don't have anything to do with the negotiation process between my controllers and mtvan suppliers. They are not under any instruction from me to treat a car job differently to a small van job. Once they have established the job won't be covered within our network, then the rulebook is thrown out of the window. Their targets are to get the job covered, price comes second.

Andy

Where did i get it from?

Are you blind?

Its from your own advert on fish4?!

WANTED: 1000 COURIER OWNER DRIVERS Nationwide Nationwide

CRV Solutions Ltd(8126)Nationwide From £100 Per Day

And further down

Posted 24 Jul 2014

Closes 21 Aug 2014

Ref 1414236

Contact Andy Stephens

Sectors Automotive & Driving, Business Opportunities, Distribution & Warehouse

Contract Type Temporary

Hours Full Time

Do you need a proof reader?

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

Where did i get it from?

Are you blind?

Its from your own advert on fish4?!

WANTED: 1000 COURIER OWNER DRIVERS Nationwide Nationwide

CRV Solutions Ltd(8126)Nationwide From £100 Per Day

And further down

Posted 24 Jul 2014

Closes 21 Aug 2014

Ref 1414236 Contact Andy Stephens

Sectors Automotive & Driving, Business Opportunities, Distribution & Warehouse

Contract Type Temporary

Hours Full Time

As i replied to you before, that advert was only posted yesterday and was a mistake made by Fish4 as they have migrated to a new system. it will be corrected by lunchtime. You will not find that information anywhere on our own website and i cannot be held responsible for the mistakes of other companies (in this case fish4).

Anyway Speed, I will thank you for pointing it out, I might never have noticed if it wasn't for you watching our adverts on a daily basis, it took you less than 24 hours to spot this one. I would have thought you would have more to do with your time on a Friday, but hey, each to their own :)

Andy

Just to correct a few other misinterpretations... Car couriers get either 55p or 60p per mile depending on what type of membership level they have chosen. Small Van couriers get either 60p or 66p.

Andy, im not trying to start world war 3 here, i'm just curious, i have pasted the above from an earlier posting. We are both in the Courier business and would like to think we have our fair share of knowledge, but to correctly insure a car for Hire and Reward, Goods in transit up to say 20k and PL im struggling to understand why you wouldn't offer the same rates to car drivers as small van drivers. We learn something new everyday and all im trying to do is understand why the difference in rates.

Chris

I was actually looking it up to assist me with your misleading claims, as the same accusations were put to you last year as i recall. The fact it was posted yesterday is merely coincidental i assure you. Thankfully what you do is far from in my thoughts, but unfortunately your practises keep coming back to haunt us all. It is at that point that i voice my opinion. I have more interesting things on the bottom of my shoe Andy, trust me!

Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Just to correct a few other misinterpretations... Car couriers get either 55p or 60p per mile depending on what type of membership level they have chosen. Small Van couriers get either 60p or 66p.

Andy, im not trying to start world war 3 here, i'm just curious, i have pasted the above from an earlier posting. We are both in the Courier business and would like to think we have our fair share of knowledge, but to correctly insure a car for Hire and Reward, Goods in transit up to say 20k and PL im struggling to understand why you wouldn't offer the same rates to car drivers as small van drivers. We learn something new everyday and all im trying to do is understand why the difference in rates.

Chris

Hi Chris,

It's based on supply and demand. We can usually cover a car job within our network without much fuss. Small vans and the larger the van gets, the harder the job is to cover. So it makes sense for us to give the customer a carrot of a slighly lower price for a car. If every customer expected vans, our job would be harder and therefore more expensive.

Andy

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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I was actually looking it up to assist me with your misleading claims, as the same accusations were put to you last year as i recall. The fact it was posted yesterday is merely coincidental i assure you. Thankfully what you do is far from in my thoughts, but unfortunately your practises keep coming back to haunt us all. It is at that point that i voice my opinion. I have more interesting things on the bottom of my shoe Andy, trust me!

I think your a closet Courier Expert spotter, keep up the good work Mr Speed :)

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Just to correct a few other misinterpretations... Car couriers get either 55p or 60p per mile depending on what type of membership level they have chosen. Small Van couriers get either 60p or 66p.

Andy, im not trying to start world war 3 here, i'm just curious, i have pasted the above from an earlier posting. We are both in the Courier business and would like to think we have our fair share of knowledge, but to correctly insure a car for Hire and Reward, Goods in transit up to say 20k and PL im struggling to understand why you wouldn't offer the same rates to car drivers as small van drivers. We learn something new everyday and all im trying to do is understand why the difference in rates.

Chris

Hi Chris,

It's based on supply and demand. We can usually cover a car job within our network without much fuss. Small vans and the larger the van gets, the harder the job is to cover. So it makes sense for us to give the customer a carrot of a slighly lower price for a car. If every customer expected vans, our job would be harder and therefore more expensive.

Andy

What he actually means is he can't recruit real couriers because 50-55pplm is a rate that most couriers avoid, and rightly so. The business model is flawed, and so he is forced to recruit new people into the industry. People who have little to no knowledge of what is needed to be a courier-and i include insurance in that.

When i say a flawed business model, i mean one that feels that 50% of the price charged is fair. The job is harder to cover Andy, because you're expecting people to cover the work at ridiculously low rates. If you were to offer say 70% then i think you may find it a lot easier covering your work, but as you stated last year, your business would go bust. So i say again, your business, by definition, must be flawed, otherwise why can't you cover the work?

I challenge you to do a months trial in a car, covering your own work at your own rates. Then come back to us and tell us it's workable. The fact is you know the rates are unworkable, but you rely on the endless conveyor belt of naive drivers who come into the industry, and very quickly go out of it. You take advantage of these newbies who haven't done the maths, but who have put their trust in you. They work their cars into the ground, and when the cars give up the ghost, have nothing put aside to replace it with. Your rates don't allow them to, you know it, i know it, we all know it, all except for the poor new recruit on the promise of a new career. You should be ashamed but people like you never are, are they. Its not defendable, and the fact that you try says more about you than i ever can

Hi Andy I appreciate your reply, what i am about to say is genuine, I am approached most weeks by people looking for work be it driving or office based and when I have to say im sorry but we are not recruiting at the moment the next question is always "Well do you know of anywhere i can try"?

Now then, I often suggest they approach the nationals etc but always advise them to have all their documents at hand as they will want to see them (As do I). I have never pointed anyone in your direction (Just being honest) and not for any reason in particular i just haven't. I have been in transport for some time but i honestly (and i mean Honestly) cannot see how anyone running a car legally (Insurances etc) and after all the running costs could make any money at 50pplm.

Would you agree or disagree with any of my comments.

Chris

You cant do it legally at those rates in a car, and when i have quoted for and indeed worked for Courier Expert it has always been at my own rates, (car jobs ) and with proper insurances etc the absolute line bottom for me is always higher than Andys quoted prices and i will say one thing in Courier Experts defence they always pay on time unlike some people i have worked for.

Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Nathan V Parry said:

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If a vendor puts a "car job" on the site purely to let anyone quoting thats its small enough to fit in a car, rather than a pallet that'll need a van, when said person looking already has a pallet on his van but can easily fit an envelope on too, then thats one thing.

Why not just put "Van" and be done with it?

If it fits in a car it'll fit in a van, but if it requires a van it wont fit in a car so just put VAN in the first place.

Those that keep saying "We dont put car for cheaper rates" sound like the TFL saying the Congestion Charge is not purely for revenue.

So a customer asks you to quote for 100k worth of business and states that cars will be required from time to time what would you do?

I'd say I work in a van because Im a van courier not Ahmad delivering pizzas on a friday night in a car.

Nathan V Parry said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Nathan V Parry said:

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If a vendor puts a "car job" on the site purely to let anyone quoting thats its small enough to fit in a car, rather than a pallet that'll need a van, when said person looking already has a pallet on his van but can easily fit an envelope on too, then thats one thing.

Why not just put "Van" and be done with it?

If it fits in a car it'll fit in a van, but if it requires a van it wont fit in a car so just put VAN in the first place.

Those that keep saying "We dont put car for cheaper rates" sound like the TFL saying the Congestion Charge is not purely for revenue.

So a customer asks you to quote for 100k worth of business and states that cars will be required from time to time what would you do?

I'd say I work in a van because Im a van courier not Ahmad delivering pizzas on a friday night in a car.

Oh I see... Best of luck then.

Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Nathan V Parry said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Nathan V Parry said:

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If a vendor puts a "car job" on the site purely to let anyone quoting thats its small enough to fit in a car, rather than a pallet that'll need a van, when said person looking already has a pallet on his van but can easily fit an envelope on too, then thats one thing.

Why not just put "Van" and be done with it?

If it fits in a car it'll fit in a van, but if it requires a van it wont fit in a car so just put VAN in the first place.

Those that keep saying "We dont put car for cheaper rates" sound like the TFL saying the Congestion Charge is not purely for revenue.

So a customer asks you to quote for 100k worth of business and states that cars will be required from time to time what would you do?

I'd say I work in a van because Im a van courier not Ahmad delivering pizzas on a friday night in a car.

Oh I see... Best of luck then.

I cant offer something I haven't got can I. And I certainly wont go out and get a car with the necessary insurance in the hope a company may ask for it "time to time." I'll just have to say sorry, this is me... If Im any use by all means use me but...

Nathan V Parry said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Nathan V Parry said:

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Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Nathan V Parry said:

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If a vendor puts a "car job" on the site purely to let anyone quoting thats its small enough to fit in a car, rather than a pallet that'll need a van, when said person looking already has a pallet on his van but can easily fit an envelope on too, then thats one thing.

Why not just put "Van" and be done with it?

If it fits in a car it'll fit in a van, but if it requires a van it wont fit in a car so just put VAN in the first place.

Those that keep saying "We dont put car for cheaper rates" sound like the TFL saying the Congestion Charge is not purely for revenue.

So a customer asks you to quote for 100k worth of business and states that cars will be required from time to time what would you do?

I'd say I work in a van because Im a van courier not Ahmad delivering pizzas on a friday night in a car.

Oh I see... Best of luck then.

I cant offer something I haven't got can I. And I certainly wont go out and get a car with the necessary insurance in the hope a company may ask for it "time to time." I'll just have to say sorry, this is me... If Im any use by all means use me but...

No I totally understand what you are saying and I agree it would be silly to do what you say in terms of going and getting a car. The point i am trying to make is that if company's have car's on their fleet for whatever reason and they are available when a said job becomes available then I cant see what the issue is.

Chris

Someone somewhere will do it. I personally would go for the scrapping of cars in this game. Bike/Van/Midi Van/Transit/7.5t/18t...there's plenty of choice.

I think it's already been mentioned that it is a way to manipulate newbies, the longer people turn up in them the longer it will go on though, so it needs culling. It looks unprofessional too. Plus your goods can be seen. It's not a good look. It IS a way to dip your toes in but as already mentioned probably with just SD&P insurance.

It is not the cars that manipulate the "Newbie" it is other people manipulating the "Newbie" (That is not aimed at anyone in particular) but it is fact. As for looking un professional i would much prefer to send a Gleaming white say 59 plate Fiesta rather than a Knackered 53 rusty Fiesta Van.

You can quite easily manipulate the "Newbie" in a van if you wanted to.

Like i have said before, we have customers who do request a car as their transport so we will continue to do so, i guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

What needs culling is people joining trade sites who haven't a clue what it takes to be a courier. We all have to start somewhere but when people start asking "what do i charge" then it is very worrying. That is basic but seems a lot of new members just dont know, and if they dont know what to charge then they can be easily manipulated if they drive a Car, Bike or van.

I agree with what you've just said, and I think you said you agreed with what I said, so instead of agreeing to disagree, shall we, say, begrudgingly agree? :)

As for the 'What do I charge' line that is popping up nearly every day now, I say to these people -

"Would you go into a bookies and blindly put the same amount it's cost you to buy a van/insurance/GIT/subscription fees/accountant fee/road tax/fuel money for 2 months while you wait to get paid/and anything else Ive forgotten... Would you risk all that money on a horse not knowing what the odds were or what the return and likelihood of it winning would be? Because that's what they're doing. Gambling. Spending money and not having a pig in sh*t clue.

It sounds easy doesnt it, you drive somewhere to pick it up then drive somewhere to deliver. It is, but only to those that know. I would echo those that say go work for a company either on their books or self employed and learn the hard way, get an idea then launch yourself. You cant just lose your job in an office one day and say "Oh I know, I'll become a courier, it'll be a piece of pis's, how hard can it be? I'll spend my £4,000 redundancy spending it on a van and subscription... Ok Ive done that... Now all I need to do is log in and ask people how much to charge."

Silly really, but they will learn. Good luck to them. It's tough and it always has been and always will be.

Agreed LOL

Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Hi Andy I appreciate your reply, what i am about to say is genuine, I am approached most weeks by people looking for work be it driving or office based and when I have to say im sorry but we are not recruiting at the moment the next question is always "Well do you know of anywhere i can try"?

Now then, I often suggest they approach the nationals etc but always advise them to have all their documents at hand as they will want to see them (As do I). I have never pointed anyone in your direction (Just being honest) and not for any reason in particular i just haven't. I have been in transport for some time but i honestly (and i mean Honestly) cannot see how anyone running a car legally (Insurances etc) and after all the running costs could make any money at 50pplm.

Would you agree or disagree with any of my comments.

Chris

Hi Chris,

It's a debate that will probably never end.

Just to set the record straight, we don't pay 50pplm, our rates are 55pplm or 60pplm, depending on the membership level chosen by the courier. When our rates were last set, we measured ourselves against the competition, which are the other nationals such as city sprint, who pay anywhere from 45p a mile, which makes our rates about 30% higher.

However, this debate is irrelevant in terms in of jobs posted onto mtvan, as you guys offer the rate. We have no influence at all over what is quoted to us. So i would say, quote what you need to make the job worthwhile.

Andy

Fastback Parcel Solutions said:

the absolute line bottom for me is always higher than Andys quoted prices and i will say one thing in Courier Experts defence they always pay on time unlike some people i have worked for.

Just to emphasise my point, here is an example of a courier who quotes his own rates and still gets the work, paid on time too.

Andy

Thanks Andy. Just one final point from me then, I have very few overheads due to the way i set the business up but there is no way i could make money at 55pplm using any legal vehicle unless i worked around the clock which is obviously not do able for many reasons. Am i correct to assume that our fellow member Fastback would only get the job at his own rates if you had no availability within your network at 55pplm. I know im going on but i am interested as a Vendor as we only use trade sites to cover any overspill. I am just curious as to how these guys and girls earn a living, i know we all have different needs and expectations but sitting here in 2014 taking into account 2014 living and utility costs i just cannot see for the life of me how it could work for them.

Anyway thanks for your reply's, i only came on to defend my use of a car!

I understand your point, but there is a positive side to everything and i am an optimist :)

For example, there is one job that i still remember from last week, where one of our couriers landed 3 car jobs from us. Huddersfield to Inverness, then while he was on his way up, we took another job from Elgin to Perth, which he did on his way back then as luck would have it, he finished off with Edinburgh to Halifax. He got paid 60p a mile all the way there and, most of the way back. We did not even attempt to offer a lower rate for the jobs back, as a Courier Expert member, he is entitled to the full rate, irrespective of whether he is outbound or inbound.

Another one this week, different courier, but 2 picks ups from Crewe, 1 dropping in Harrogate, another dropping in Newcastle. 55p per mile paid for both, even though Harrogate is on the way. It was also his first day as a Courier Expert member.

Now i am sure there are those who will say (that's you Speed) that this doesn't happen every day, which is true, especially from Courier Expert alone. But it shows what is possible, with a bit of planning and forward thinking.

Andy

Andy, I am all for forward thinking and a bit of forward planning it can often end up with a win win situation. But as per your example Courier Collects Huddersfield to Inverness at 60pplm (I assume that is his membership level entitlement) How would said courier earn from that journey without the extra's or would you guarantee him work back from Inverness (As a paid up member) Im not trying to pry into your private business but i am curious as to how these people do it? Also if i was to recommend say my friend Stan to your network and Stan pays to become a member of Courier Expert. Stan does a job at 60pplm and gets paid. Courier Expert then have exactly the same job but Stan is unavailable as he is on another Courier Expert Job at 60pplm. Courier Expert then cover the job on a trade site and pay for example 70 or 75pplm to cover the job. Where does that leave Stan who is a paid up member but then finds out that a NON member has earned more than him for exactly the same job.

Thanks Chris

Ps..... I really dont know where the name Stan came from!

Courier Expert said:

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Now i am sure there are those who will say (that's you Speed) that this doesn't happen every day, which is true, especially from Courier Expert alone. But it shows what is possible, with a bit of planning and forward thinking.

Andy

Looks almost like an invitation to comment Andy, so i will. Forward planning in a reactive industry is a rarity. It's not forward planning, what you describe is luck. He happened to be in the right place at the right time. On another day he wouldn't. Is this how you justify paying rates that are unsustainable, "you may get a return". Getting a return journey should NOT have to be a neccessity, it should be a bonus. Yet again you try and defend the indefensible.

Do the maths

London to Manchester, 200 miles, in a car 55pplm, so 400 miles. Assume an economical car doing 50 miles to the gallon, earnings £110, 8 gallons (there and back don't forget) £6 a gallon = £48. You've made £62 less 4 hours each way if you're lucky. Assuming you don't stop i make that £7.75 per hour, and that doesn't take into account wear and tear of running your car into the ground doing work it wasn't designed to do.

Express Couriers Northwest Ltd said:

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Andy, I am all for forward thinking and a bit of forward planning it can often end up with a win win situation. But as per your example Courier Collects Huddersfield to Inverness at 60pplm (I assume that is his membership level entitlement) How would said courier earn from that journey without the extra's or would you guarantee him work back from Inverness (As a paid up member) Im not trying to pry into your private business but i am curious as to how these people do it? Also if i was to recommend say my friend Stan to your network and Stan pays to become a member of Courier Expert. Stan does a job at 60pplm and gets paid. Courier Expert then have exactly the same job but Stan is unavailable as he is on another Courier Expert Job at 60pplm. Courier Expert then cover the job on a trade site and pay for example 70 or 75pplm to cover the job. Where does that leave Stan who is a paid up member but then finds out that a NON member has earned more than him for exactly the same job.

Thanks Chris

Hi Chris,

OK, let's go with Stan :)

I'm not in the business of guaranteeing anything. We have work available and the closest member to the job gets it at the agreed rate. If no members are available, it gets put out to the exchanges. If Stan isn't available, yes we have to take the best rate we can off the exchanges, which is sometimes more, but that's just business. The customer isn't going to wait until Stan is available again.

In regards to our membership, I say to anyone the same thing... We have a free membership for reserves, so if paying fee's doesn't suit anyone, then just sign up for free and we'll offer you overflow work. Take it if you want it, leave it if you don't.

Andy

Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Anyone who joins the courier expert network gets 50% of the job. He advertises cars at £1.09 per miles, and small vans at £1.19 per mile. Therefore he expects people that sign up to his network to work for £0.55p per mile for a car and £0.60p per mile for a small van (and isn't ashamed of the fact, actually boasting that it's more than the Nationals)

AAlso the advert reads "Use your own car, people carrier or van"

It couldn't be more obvious what type of driver is being touted here. It's not couriers, its lifestyle drivers. If you told them insurance starts at £1500, would they really be interested covering a couple of jobs a week? No course they wouldn't. These types of drivers do NOT have courier insurance, they are recruited on the promise of guaranteed fulltime work, earning from £100 per day, and are charged a weekly fee for the privilege.

It's immoral, and extremely misleading.

No such guarantees can be made, no such earnings can be guaranteed, and certainly there cannot be a guarantee of fulltime work.

You can have a new career - one where you're in total control

That ad was posted on the 24th (yesterday) and was an error from fish4, it's obviously wrong and out of date, because the membership pricing is wrong.. I am told this will be corrected by lunchtime.

Just to correct a few other misinterpretations... Car couriers get either 55p or 60p per mile depending on what type of membership level they have chosen. Small Van couriers get either 60p or 66p.

Where have you read we guarantee £100 a day, or have you just made that up to make your post sound dramatic? Also, where is the guarantee of full time work, have you made that up too?

I think the fish4 advert even states 'ad hoc courier work'

Anyway Mr Speed, i know you have only said the above to wind me up, so no need to reply, I already know what your answer will be :)

Andy

How is anyone supposed to make a living on those rates. I've been subbing out a lot of work myself lately and i wouldn't dream of giving those your kind rates. Maybe because i'm not greedy & i believe in a fair rate, your rate are definatley not fair

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd said:

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Anyone who joins the courier expert network gets 50% of the job. He advertises cars at £1.09 per miles, and small vans at £1.19 per mile. Therefore he expects people that sign up to his network to work for £0.55p per mile for a car and £0.60p per mile for a small van (and isn't ashamed of the fact, actually boasting that it's more than the Nationals)

AAlso the advert reads "Use your own car, people carrier or van"

It couldn't be more obvious what type of driver is being touted here. It's not couriers, its lifestyle drivers. If you told them insurance starts at £1500, would they really be interested covering a couple of jobs a week? No course they wouldn't. These types of drivers do NOT have courier insurance, they are recruited on the promise of guaranteed fulltime work, earning from £100 per day, and are charged a weekly fee for the privilege.

It's immoral, and extremely misleading.

No such guarantees can be made, no such earnings can be guaranteed, and certainly there cannot be a guarantee of fulltime work.

You can have a new career - one where you're in total control

That ad was posted on the 24th (yesterday) and was an error from fish4, it's obviously wrong and out of date, because the membership pricing is wrong.. I am told this will be corrected by lunchtime.

Just to correct a few other misinterpretations... Car couriers get either 55p or 60p per mile depending on what type of membership level they have chosen. Small Van couriers get either 60p or 66p.

Where have you read we guarantee £100 a day, or have you just made that up to make your post sound dramatic? Also, where is the guarantee of full time work, have you made that up too?

I think the fish4 advert even states 'ad hoc courier work'

Anyway Mr Speed, i know you have only said the above to wind me up, so no need to reply, I already know what your answer will be :)

Andy

How is anyone supposed to make a living on those rates. I've been subbing out a lot of work myself lately and i wouldn't dream of giving those your kind rates. Maybe because i'm not greedy & i believe in a fair rate, your rate are definatley not fair

Hi Darren, As an mtvan member, you have only done work for us at your own rate anyway, which we have always paid you at. So in your case, our rates are irrelevant.

As for the rates you sub out at, I am presuming you can afford to sub out at higerh rates because you do not have any overheads, like employees or premises? Would you still be able to afford the same rates, if you employed someone a controller and paid for an office for the controller to work in?

Obviously if i could do everything myself, my overheads would be minimal. However, these days I am just a small part of Courier Expert, I am just one of 12 people, i do not have that option.

Andy

By the way Darren, Speed only quoted the lower rates in that post, he missed off the Level 2 rate of 60pplm for a car and 66pplm for a small van.

Andy

As Mr G said right at the top. The clue is in the title. MTvan, Im assuming it's an abbreviation of empty van, or perhaps it should be renamed MTcargo... Meaning empty car - GO!

Anything less than 0.70p a mile is a pure pis's take but dont blame the people paying it, blame the idiots that accept it at that rate. If no one done them the rates would have to rise. While the word 'car' flies around there will be those trying their luck (both drivers AND companies). Keep it professional, if it fits on a bike say bike and if it doesnt say van.

Fact is that anything less than 90pplm is taking the p*ss! My combo costs 25pplm with proper maintenance, insurance, depreciation, phone etc. With an average speed taken from sat nav at 35mph not including loading, unloading, waiting. You need 90pplm to make minimum wage before you even take into account dead mileage. All I have to show from the last 3 yrs is a knackered van!

This is what I mean. I said 70p because Ive done a few jobs at that price and managed, possibly because my Astravan does 65mpg on average. Now there's a question, is my CAR derived Astra VAN a car or a van? I dont really care what people call it if the job fits in it it gets charged at a van rate regardless, but much more that 60ppm.

Your astra van is no different than the mondeo estate that I once used all the time apart from the fact mine had rear windows... He said tongue in cheek

Fastback Parcel Solutions said:

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Your astra van is no different than the mondeo estate that I once used all the time apart from the fact mine had rear windows... He said tongue in cheek

I totally agree. :)

I just think in a van it is suited to the job more whereas in a car it really looks like a last resort or something. Why is it cheaper in a car anyway, does it cost less to run? It's not built for stop/starting or weight like a van is so no probably not in terms of running costs. However, it might be cheaper to run if the insurance isnt valid.

I really don't consider an Astravan to be a suitable for use as a (SLV) courier van. Loading a pallet 350kg 800mm high with a standard forklift is simply not possible. That is why I expect to pay more for a SLV than a car.

True 021 u cant load a pallet in an estate car or an astra van, my car wasnt cheaper than a small van i charged the same price as i can or could get as much in it. (legally )

021 SAMEDAY said:

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I really don't consider an Astravan to be a suitable for use as a (SLV) courier van. Loading a pallet 350kg 800mm high with a standard forklift is simply not possible. That is why I expect to pay more for a SLV than a car.

I really dont consider a small van fit for 350kg pallets although easily capable for that vehicle. Pallets to me would require the next vehicle up. Having said that I have actually had a few in my Astravan. Small vans that can accommodate packages, jiffies, envelopes and boxes are small van worthy. The problem is there are in between vehicles, (in order of size :)

Vauxhall Astravan - Car or Small van? Vauxhall Combo - Small van. Fiat Scudo - Small Van or Midi Van? Vauxhall Vivaro - Midi Van or Transit? Mercedes Sprinter - Transit.

A Vauxhall Vivaro is classed as a Transit but much smaller than a Mercedes Sprinter. The Fiat Scudo is classed as a Midi Van, but to me they are almost the same as a Vauxhall Combo which in many eyes is the smallest a small van can go. And a Vauxhall Astravan is the same as a car, which in size it is but actually looks more like the chosen vehicle for this particular chosen profession which is probably my point rather than the actual size.

If I wanted to become a window cleaner I wouldnt go and buy a cardboard box and a roll of tissue, I'd buy a bucket and a sponge to carry out the work professionally. If you have a car and are serious about doing this on a full time basis then you need to get the required vehicle for the job. Other than the 'dipping your toes in' cliche or haven't enough money to buy one line I can only suspect that a big majority of those carrying out this work in cars are simply here today gone tomorrow and quite rightly suggested by someone already - coming off the naive conveyor belt and being, well raped basically until realization kicks in.

All that said, I must confess that when I started out back in 1999 as a rookie 18 year old I drove a Ford Orion, I was hardly given any work as a result and in a nutshell had the pis's taken out of me on a daily basis. Thinking back to them days it couldn't have looked good pulling up to deliver in this vehicle, but we all have to start somewhere. I was dead serious about the job so through struggle, thick and thin I made it my aim to acquire a van ASAP.

(Please bear in mind that this is only my opinion and I realize that people have to do what they have to do :) )

Will this topic never end, I became part of CE about 18 months ago when I was having a labotomy, in all that time I did apply for jobs being available in certain time slots. Guess how how many jobs have been allocated to me...

Starts with a Z and ends in an O

Applied again for the 'hell of it' UNSUCCESSFUL what a shock. Just wish I was successful then I can tell them.... viuvgbhedlgherwhrrkdfjhiuhghghkhgrhb nrg pw[rp

Not sure I'd agree that a combo is smallest of small vans? Combo 1.7cdti 2000gvw load 600-625kg 110cm between arches approx 2.25 cubic metres Anything bigger is a midi?

Phax but surely your on there reserve list? They claim to call all reserves BEFORE posting jobs on here and c/e and veho trans and Shiply and anyvan

Mr G Courier Service said:

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Phax but surely your on there reserve list? They claim to call all reserves BEFORE posting jobs on here and c/e and veho trans and Shiply and anyvan

That's incorrect. We don't call reserves before putting the job on here, but we do email them. If a reserve member responds to the email, then they will get the job.

Andy

A topic that never seems to end. Why doesn't everyone just get on with running their own businesses and leave others to do the same.?

Granted some operate in ways that in my opinion is taking the p*ss out of new / naive people already in or looking to get into the industry.

There's only a certain amount you can actually try to point things out to people but at the end of the day it is their business to do as they see fit, regardless of what you or i may think about their morals / tactics,

Yes this post does relate to courier expert, but i have no interest in them just like they would have no interest with us, therefore leave each other to run own businesses how we like.

I can see and understand the frustrating part, but do people really think what they say will make a blind bit of difference ?

So just like the terminology of quoting a job, "deal with it and move on"

Courier Expert said:

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By the way Darren, Speed only quoted the lower rates in that post, he missed off the Level 2 rate of 60pplm for a car and 66pplm for a small van.

Andy

I still think 66pplm is still low, but that why I don't do work for you anymore. I got fed up of quoteing on your work and not getting anywhere, because it only goes on Courier Exchange anyway. I was wasting my time when I could quote on a realistic job that won't be looking for the cheapest price by amatuers. Maybe you should try and rejoin Courier Exchange yourself

East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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By the way Darren, Speed only quoted the lower rates in that post, he missed off the Level 2 rate of 60pplm for a car and 66pplm for a small van.

Andy

I still think 66pplm is still low, but that why I don't do work for you anymore. I got fed up of quoteing on your work and not getting anywhere, because it only goes on Courier Exchange anyway. I was wasting my time when I could quote on a realistic job that won't be looking for the cheapest price by amatuers. Maybe you should try and rejoin Courier Exchange yourself

Why would he ? When its public knowledge that if it isnt covered on here, CE have a Courier Exchange member who will post it on there to get it covered.

HSP Couriers said:

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East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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By the way Darren, Speed only quoted the lower rates in that post, he missed off the Level 2 rate of 60pplm for a car and 66pplm for a small van.

Andy

I still think 66pplm is still low, but that why I don't do work for you anymore. I got fed up of quoteing on your work and not getting anywhere, because it only goes on Courier Exchange anyway. I was wasting my time when I could quote on a realistic job that won't be looking for the cheapest price by amatuers. Maybe you should try and rejoin Courier Exchange yourself

Why would he ? When its public knowledge that if it isnt covered on here, CE have a Courier Exchange member who will post it on there to get it covered.

Actually, he would join the courier exchange, but i very much doubt they would have us back. It only takes 1 person to call them up and mention they are also interested in joining Courier Expert, to unleash a torrent of abuse from CX staff. I really don't know why, even the junior members of staff answering their phones, feel so threatened by just the mere mention of our name. I've made a few recorded 'mystery shopper' calls to verify what people are saying is actually true :)

I think it is worth mentioning Darren's point, he feels there is no point quoting on the job if it is being also being advertised onto Courier Exchange. Is this because the rates offered on Courier Exchange are lower? Or is it because they get covered much quicker? Darren is also a member of Courier Exchange anyway, so could bid on the job on either exchange, so would be interested to hear the answer.

Andy

Hi Andy How do your jobs end up on the Courier Exchange if you are not a member??

Chris

Hi Chris, i really don't know, i guess someone just likes re-posting our jobs :)

Andy

Hi Chris, i really don't know, i guess someone just likes re-posting our jobs :) Andy

I think if I was posting jobs on here and they were being put on by an 'UNKNOWN' I would make it my business to find out.

Having been away for over a week thought that I would see what other people in the industry have to say so turned to the source of all knowledge mtv guess what same topics as the week before! Walos! glad i,m not paying for the privilege!

Courier Expert said:

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HSP Couriers said:

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East-Lancs Sameday Couriers Ltd said:

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Courier Expert said:

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By the way Darren, Speed only quoted the lower rates in that post, he missed off the Level 2 rate of 60pplm for a car and 66pplm for a small van.

Andy

I still think 66pplm is still low, but that why I don't do work for you anymore. I got fed up of quoteing on your work and not getting anywhere, because it only goes on Courier Exchange anyway. I was wasting my time when I could quote on a realistic job that won't be looking for the cheapest price by amatuers. Maybe you should try and rejoin Courier Exchange yourself

Why would he ? When its public knowledge that if it isnt covered on here, CE have a Courier Exchange member who will post it on there to get it covered.

Actually, he would join the courier exchange, but i very much doubt they would have us back. It only takes 1 person to call them up and mention they are also interested in joining Courier Expert, to unleash a torrent of abuse from CX staff. I really don't know why, even the junior members of staff answering their phones, feel so threatened by just the mere mention of our name. I've made a few recorded 'mystery shopper' calls to verify what people are saying is actually true :)

I think it is worth mentioning Darren's point, he feels there is no point quoting on the job if it is being also being advertised onto Courier Exchange. Is this because the rates offered on Courier Exchange are lower? Or is it because they get covered much quicker? Darren is also a member of Courier Exchange anyway, so could bid on the job on either exchange, so would be interested to hear the answer.

Andy

I don't bid on jobs, i quote. My price is my price it's as simple as that. At the end of the day, vendors know the service i give and i think my feedback says it all aswell. If vendors are looking for the cheapest price on job auction sites, then maybe they should join anyvan or uShip. I hate the word bid for this kind of work

Courier Expert said:

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Hi Chris, i really don't know, i guess someone just likes re-posting our jobs :)

Andy

You do know, so leave it out andy

Courier Expert said:

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i really don't know, i guess someone just likes re-posting our jobs :)

Andy

Like the nerdy kid in school who hides behind the teacher pulling faces (that's how that comment above comes across)

Exactly the type of answer you would expect.

HSP Couriers said:

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Courier Expert said:

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i really don't know, i guess someone just likes re-posting our jobs :)

Andy

Like the nerdy kid in school who hides behind the teacher pulling faces (that's how that comment above comes across)

Exactly the type of answer you would expect.

The mtvan forum isn't the appropriate place to discuss it :)

Andy