Subbing rates in London, and urban running costs

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ZENITH Courier Services

1383
Original Poster

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware, ODs in London get a similar mileage rate to the rest of us. So how do they earn a wage?

The other day I did a job from South Mimms to Vauxhall Road, 18 miles. I made an acceptable wage from it, but only by charging £40 = £2.22 plm.

I left South Mimms around 6pm and didn't get back to the M25 until 2hrs 45mins later. My engine was running for the whole time apart from 15 mins unloading. If it had been during the day, there'd have been the congestion charge to factor in as well.

I bet I used my clutch and brakes as many times in those few hours than I do driving all the way to Scotland. Has any comparative study been done into the difference in running costs (not just mpg) between city driving and motorway driving? It would be helpful to know a figure to help calculate urban running costs.

AJM sameday Couriers

3518

Don't you go blowing that old van up in London.

Barnsley Shipping

5

London rates are priced at a higher price its priced for time and assle !!!!!

Dont feel guilty about over charging for London !

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Mileage rate in London is, as you'd expect, much higher than outside London....and not so much a mileage rate, more a time rate....but to answer your question, due to the fact it IS London, and lots of work around, very rarely is the OD doing just the one job. Most London drivers would rather stay in London as there is very low, if any dead mileage, and from A to B they'll undoubtedly be at least one pick up enroute, and once cleared a pick up very close by.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

As Mr B says. don't be shy, everyone expects higher rates for London

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

eg my man Friday...pick up Stansted 1600 drop in W1, pick up SE16 for N1, and SE16 to SE18 via E10 pick up to NW1....total pay £120..and home in Beckenham by 2030

ZENITH Courier Services

1383
Original Poster

Good to know, thanks.

I prefer the open road any day. I'd rather make a lower rate for a day on the motorway than being stuck in traffic.

And don't worry AJM, i look after the old gal ;)

MK BIKES

2821

London drivers tend to have a higher rate but as has been said, likely to have 2 or 3 running along side each other. On Friday i went down with 2 into London and collected one back for Bedford.

Traffic usually isnt that bad in London except around rush hour.

BCN EXPRESS ESSEX

320

i charge a set rate for London, like everywhere you have good & bad days

MyVanCan

1050

MK Bikes said:

Traffic usually isnt that bad in London except around rush hour.

Only trouble is rush hour lasts from 6am to 11am and 3pm to 8pm.

MK BIKES

2821

MyVanCan.com said:


MK Bikes said:

Traffic usually isnt that bad in London except around rush hour.

Only trouble is rush hour lasts from 6am to 11am and 3pm to 8pm.

You going in the wrong routes then!

I know of a very successful courier who charges by the hour for London. I have tried the method myself. My customers hate it and won't play. I charge my customers pain and suffering rates. Once educated as to what this means most of them are happy.

In my opinion subbies should charge according to how they perceive the effort required. In my view rates plm are irrelevant. I once charged a customer (passing trade) at £40 Carnaby Street W1 to Camden. Same customer told me they had been quoted £18 by Addison Lee for the same job. My view is that London is a wonderland of prices and charges.

Tony

MK BIKES

2821

The reason addison quoted £18 they very much like black cabs probably dropped off round the corner, and will no doubt have a collection round the corner from drop, they also have a depot up that way

Barnsley Shipping

5

Hello Mr MK there i a big difference between a cab and a courier The black cab stops at the curb and kicks your ass out the door .In London both collection and delivery maybe a pain to find and you have to park if you can .So the rate should reflect that God knows how AL actully make a profit sometimes !!

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Because as MK stated, AL are first and foremost a cab company with a humungus amount of work so anything and everything will be enroute to something they're already doing...hence the low rates

Frank Hall Courier Owner Driver

393

I have a simple answer for London, I won't go there. The place is a nightmare, Like a previous comment, I stick to the open road. Spending hours getting in/out and trying to park, plus the continous plague of traffic wardens means it is simply not worth the hassel. I leave it to the people that actually like the place.

ZENITH Courier Services

1383
Original Poster

I've spent £200 in parking fines for london over the last couple of months! Two infringements, both lasting less than 2 minutes each and in both cases i never left the van. It's totally criminal. I'm afraid I'm now having to put up my prices for London to mitigate against the risk of getting lost, having to pause, and getting fined.

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD.

2894

Frank Hall Courier Owner Driver said:


I have a simple answer for London, I won't go there. The place is a nightmare, Like a previous comment, I stick to the open road. Spending hours getting in/out and trying to park, plus the continous plague of traffic wardens means it is simply not worth the hassel. I leave it to the people that actually like the place.

But how can you exclude a delivery to the capital, if you are offering a courier service to customers?

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

He can sub it out here, as for Zeniths fines, I strongly suggest that if you haven't already, you query them.

There is an incredibly high proportion of fines that, if challenged, get thrown out, especially in London

MyVanCan

1050

General rule for London is, before stopping anywhere ask yourself "can I stop here?" If it's not a loading bay clearly marked "loading", and not a single yellow line, the answer is probably no.

Courier Expert

158013

We charge a premium for going inside the M25 and the sub-contractor gets a share of this on top of the normal mileage based rate.

It's worth remembering, that there are more deliveries going in and out of London, than anywhere else in the country. So although London slows you down, there is greater potential for a return job, than anywhere else.

MK BIKES

2821

The simple answer is use a bike where possible

moray couriers

780

Courier Expert said:


It's worth remembering, that there are more deliveries going in and out of London, than anywhere else in the country. So although London slows you down, there is greater potential for a return job, than anywhere else.

Not much chance of a return load for me it seems whenever I have the misfortune of having to go there

MK BIKES

2821

moray couriers said:


Courier Expert said:


It's worth remembering, that there are more deliveries going in and out of London, than anywhere else in the country. So although London slows you down, there is greater potential for a return job, than anywhere else.

Not much chance of a return load for me it seems whenever I have the misfortune of having to go there

You are welcome to text me to advise me of your movements (going in or out down the M1/M40 corridor), I now have several London based customers

moray couriers

780

Thanks Tony, will do when I get back home and driving the van again but at the mo am having to drive the boat for awhile, (cant find anyone else reliable enough to do it).

ZENITH Courier Services

1383
Original Poster

Courier Expert said:


We charge a premium for going inside the M25 and the sub-contractor gets a share of this on top of the normal mileage based rate.

Not meant as a personal dig, but i would argue that the subbie should get all the premium, not just a share of it, because all the extra cost and faff is his.

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD.

2894

ZENITH Courier Services said:


Courier Expert said:


We charge a premium for going inside the M25 and the sub-contractor gets a share of this on top of the normal mileage based rate.

Not meant as a personal dig, but i would argue that the subbie should get all the premium, not just a share of it, because all the extra cost and faff is his.

Rubbish!

As far as I am concerned, if a subbie gives me a price that is it. I then decide if I want to use them.

Why some couriers are incapable of asking the 'right' price is beyond me.

I again re iterate, what price the customer is paying is of no concern whatsoever to the subbie, it is none of their business. The subbie should know what price they need to cover a job whether it is London or anywhere else, they then either get what they ask for or don't do it! END OF!

ZENITH Courier Services

1383
Original Poster

If the subbie is giving a quote then yes, i agree. I was thinking of arrangements where subbies are used regularly and so individual job rates are rarely discussed. My bad.

Courier Expert

158013

Our percentage margins remain the same, regardless of the total price of the job.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

[Admin: Please don't make this personal. Why not discuss your (experience) or London/Urban pricing/running costs which is what this thread is about?]

Website Admin

6173

Off topic? Shame this thread couldn't remain objective.

ETA: Various posts removed from various contributors.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

Subbing rates in London should and are higher, as they should be anywhere with heavy congestion to allow for sitting in traffic goin nowhere fast.

There is more likelihood of getting a double or treble up, and definitely the chance of something in London coming out, or if you're brave enough a couple of London to Londons once you've cleared.

I don't think that can be used as an excuse NOT to pass on the relevant extra charges to the courier tho, as has been suggested.

There is a bigger chance of getting a fine in London and it is going to take you time to get around, especially if you're not a frequent visitor, but it isn't as bad as some seem to think, once you know the right and wrong ways to get in, and to get out.

A very decent living can be made if you're a courier in London, but to go in at "normal" rates is suicide (not to be taken literally)

MK BIKES

2821

It does seem that the people that moan about London are the ones that rarely go in, use London to your advantage!

UK-Sameday Leicester Ltd.

438

I rarely go inside the M25 on a trade rate for 2 main reasons.

1 companies based in or around London are the ones who recognize the waiting and will pay accordingly but others further afield simply want an a to b price based on the mileage.

2 basing it just on the mileage through autoroute or possibly even this site a simple example is Leicester to Croydon which comes out as 114 miles, do i really want to go through central London to get there?

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

No but I would quote based on actual miles, and if the controller has any nous he'll know too, if not then i wouldn't want to work for them anyway

MK BIKES

2821

No one in their right mind would route through London to Croydon not even on a bike, not even me & I used to live in South London so I know the routes.

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd

10314

I think the term is sarf not south

AJM sameday Couriers

3518

MK Bikes said:


No one in their right mind would route through London to Croydon not even on a bike, not even me & I used to live in South London so I know the routes.

I once did this route on a Friday nigjt about 7pm what a nightmare, you have to learn the hard way sometimes.

Gas Motorcycle Couriers

3617

MK Bikes said:


No one in their right mind would route through London to Croydon not even on a bike, not even me & I used to live in South London so I know the routes.

It doesnt take that long Tony you wuss..

MyVanCan

1050

MK Bikes said:


No one in their right mind would route through London to Croydon not even on a bike, not even me & I used to live in South London so I know the routes.

Depends which part of Croydon, it's an hour and a half either way from where I am but the m25 is easier...some of the time

MK BIKES

2821

Gas Motorcycle Couriers said:


MK Bikes said:


No one in their right mind would route through London to Croydon not even on a bike, not even me & I used to live in South London so I know the routes.

It doesnt take that long Tony you wuss..

The difference is 30 miles, you knock yourself out going through, I'll charge the extra to go round.

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