Subbing Rates

Now I know this crops up a lot but it clearly still needs to be said

You should have 2 x rates, one for your customers (the end user) and one for us (the trade). If i have a job on an exchange site thats 43 miles for a small van, what i expect to see are quotes of between £30 and £40 A quote of £150???!!!!...lol

If i wanted a bleedin limo with gold trim i'd have said so

Also an Oxford to London...63miles and in the cc zone so anything from say £55 to £65 i'd say is fair?...£100!!....and you ask yourself why you're sitting at home with no work???!!!

You're wasting both your time and mine

On the plus side i'm getting stuff covered more successfully recently

In the defence of whoever made these bids... It sounds like they're new to the market, as I was a few months back. I put in a few bids like that (expensive because the jobs weren't in my area, not because I was trying to rip anyone off), much to the aggro of Swift, because...

1. I was new to subbing and used to dealing with end customers, and wasn't fully aware of the difference between trade price and end price, and
2. I didn't realise how quickly the job poster finds a driver - I used to think 'maybe they won't get anyone so I'll give them a back up option in case they're desperate'.

The response was, let's say 'potent', and I learned quickly! ;)

The fact that Rob feels compelled to make this post highlights the sorry state of people in this industry. His findings are then backed up by Camvan who has in his own words did not have a clue what he was on about a few months ago !!! I disagree with Robs pricing advice but Im a person that is not actively looking for work in the way that most people on these exchange sites do . We have our work we have our contacts built up from my 40 years of puddle splashing in this game . Im guessing that the many millions of new couriers will be quite happy to subscribe to Robs advice as he is supported by many other companies and while to be fair its a good guildeline from an unwritten rule that was never in the past disscussed it really is only for the internet novice who probably cant even get to inverness Airport without a sat nav

I fairly new to the whole internet thing really but again Im becomming deeply alarmed by the poor quality of new people that are running before they are walking or at least trying to !!!

To start proprerly you do have to do a business plan I know must dont !!! and you start maybe by working for somebody like Rob full time / subbie arrangement and you learn your trade and do your apprenticeship. A good thing for the newbie is to get off your lazy arse and learn your trade with Fedex or DHL in the beginning multidropping I can do this still even at my age I was bloody good at it not long ago !!! but most of your winge and moan and are too tired to give it a go . My reason for this is because when UK Mail was called businesspost it had the fedex contract and people were coming into it moaning and groaning allbeit but walking away with an education in how the business runs and even more they were even trained to complete internatinal way bills and have an understanding in the ducumentation required ? How many of you are turning up at the Hearthrow horse shoe and not even having a clue what to say to the boy on the door whwn he asks for the paperwork !!!!!

Oxford to London...63miles and in the cc zone so anything from say £55 to £65 ROTFPMSL

a min charge for london to london is £50

Bob makes a valid point it has to be said

There are many who don't seem to know the basics, and satnavs have definitely not helped with the calibre and quaility of the delivery driver.....but i think its more to do with the lack of common sense, together with the need to earn something NOW rather than having the luxury of learning everything there is to know beforehand.

I think a good place to start is with someone like CitySprint....that way you get to know how NOT to do things pretty quickly, and get used to diabolical mileage rates...

Then when you've seen the light, learnt what this industry is about by reading forums, and asking around, you will be truly ready to join the pro's

We all have to start somewhere

oxford to london £100 is a fair price for a lwb

SMH...YOUR mimimum charge for a London to London may well be £50 but the example I quoted was for a SMALL VAN not an LWB so you can stop pissing yourself on the floor now

Ah, I wondered what that meant!

Barnsely...

"Camvan who has in his own words did not have a clue what he was on about"...

Those are not my own words. I wasn't WthatW incompetent. And I do resent being told that, as a newby, I must "get off my lazy arse". Knowing that I'm a newbie, and knowing that I did not have much industry experience when I started, I've worked tirelessly to gain as much info, experience, contacts and inside tips as I can.

I'm sorry if I appear to have been "moaning and groaning". I believe I'm not the only person who finds this a difficult industry, and my intention has been to be open about the challenges, in the hope that myself and others might benefit from helpful discussion about them. Yes, that has exposed my weaknesses and made me vulnerable, but I believe it's a worthwhile investment in the long run.

Congratulations on the success of your business. Maybe in 40 years time I might be having similar success... :)

What is the point of a forum, if you cant ask questions?

Mr B was being a bit harsh to newbies.....as i said we all have to start somewhere....better to ask questions than do the job wrong and f*** up badly His ivory tower has made him forget perhaps, how difficult it is out there in the real world...lol

BUT there are some incredibly dim people out there

and i've used quite a few "newbies" recently and have been very impressed with both their attitude and professionalism....very refreshing PLUS they haven't had time to get as cynical as us lot yet...lol

let's face it multi dropping and same day work are two totally different animals, multi dropping is based in a certain area and involves 50+ drops getting as many drops done in time, learning your territory and your regular customers, same day involves different skills of getting goods to their destination and involves 1 drop (usually) per job, and you also have to learn your territory which is the whole of the UK and this takes time

yes people use satnavs (I use Smartnav and a Garmin) but I also use radio 2 travel news and any other scrap of information I can get the job done!

ivory towers are built on the sweat of the people below we all have to start somewhere, if you can: speak English, write reasonably legibly and you have the brains to let people know if either something has gone wrong or even if your just not sure and you ASK then you have a fighting chance of earning a living,

Speed while I remember, Aldi are selling Chelsea boots in brown & black at £14.00

Army boots for me...German Paras £25!!!!

Ok, sorry, had you down for dealer or chelsea boots lol

Very comfy and has an additional use if anyone f***s me off too much

Also an Oxford to London...63miles and in the cc zone so anything from say £55 to £65 i'd say is fair?

63m x 2 back to oxford = 126m roughly £21 in fuel - £10 lcc, how many hours roughly 4hrs if its not to busy £6 ph minus tax insurance know do you see why im rotfpmsl

Well SMH....you clearly have no concept of how this stuff works do you If you're a London driver heading back home then it makes perfect sense...if you're say, heading from Brum into London then yes please i'll have some of that As i've said b4...you're short sighted

If you like rolling around the floor in piss then that's entirely up to you

Well SMH....you clearly have no concept of how this stuff works do you

NO MATE NO FEKING IDEA lol

where in your quotes does it say backload, you put that you want a job covering for peanuts from oxford to london

i've said b4...you're short sighted

why im i short sighted? its not me thats wanting jobs covering for peanuts because you dont charge enough in the 1st place ;-)

Big mistake Rob !!! Simon at SMH does not know me ! but I know him as we have done some work for his mate !!! He knows is onions I can tell you that much

fek someone knows me bollocks :-)

I think thats the problem you lot dont charge the end users enough causing you to struggle

Beds and sofas !! good old boy told me all about you !!

spot on ^^ anything oxford south s/v "1.20 at least plm

paul?

ask him about Barnsley Bacon boy Bob !!!!

pauls my bitch :-D ;-) just sent him a text

beer time

Must say that is where most do NOT have a clue! Not charging customers enough is the reason that subbies cannot expect a better rate!

It amazes me how anyone can do jobs at a price where they have to rely on a backload to make a profit!

Dont know how exactly but this whole industry needs a shake up as some are definitely clueless.

l

BEER

what a good idea Simon.

You mght even get to have a few more tomorrow after your lot stuff Charlton

Have a good weekend

Why am i not suprised you 3 all get on...lol

Bob....who said i was struggling? Funny how you guys pick on the Oxford example and not the other 43 mile £150 quoted one. Even you lot must see that as pathetically high....

And why or why do you assume drivers have to rely on backloads to survive....how about it being about extra profit you wouldn't otherwise have?

You happily trundling along the motorway with your nice correctly priced job, and then sticking your head in the sand while another driver with a bit of savvy gets one to take him back.....or by letting others know where he's going, gets a co load going the same way?

What is wrong with you people???!!!!!

Bleeding Magoos the lot of ya

busy fool springs to mind lol

sorry that was soooo funny i can only type with one hand as my other is holding my sides together

I read this thread with great interest as a man once said.....

This is down to all of us not having the balls to charge the proper rate for the service you provide for us and that is due to the big boys (CitySprint et all) charging less than £1 per mile to their customers, and sometimes as low as 85p per mile, and thereby making it impossible for us to charge a rate that makes sense for all.

I charge the "proper" rate for the service I provide, which also allows me to pay my subbies a good rate whilst still making a healthy profit and to even cover a difficult job for a regular customer which I have had to sub out to a non regular subbie who has decided to chance his arm on the price without making a loss or letting the customer down based on a high subbie price. In my mind as soon as you compare your services to the likes of City Sprint then you have lost. CS customers choice is based on price not service, if thats the game you want to play in then so be it but then don't moan if your choice of subbies is then in turn restricted on price.
I took a look at your online price calculator and from what I can gather your prices are just above what you say the big boys are charging (£1pm) so are you part of the problem too?

However I am a bit puzzled as the job you mention Oxford to London (obviously random postcodes) put into your calculator came out at £169!!

This ones even better............

[IMG]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/mkbiker/speed.png[/IMG]

WW

Hey MK

I'm not comparing my services to those of CitySprint, i'm merely pointing out that their prices are sooo low it makes if difficult for us as an industry to charge realistic rates.

We don't try and compete with them as we offer a service level that is not comparable, as i'm sure all you do. But it doesn't make it easy with these lot continually undercuttng does it!!!

Not sure how you got to £169....ox2 to ec2 small van inner london doesn't get me that price????

I have lost customers to national companies that have uncut me but sooner or later after a balls up they come back, and occasionally I just get the more important work to complete when the not so important jobs are taken by a cheaper national company, I had a biker turn up somewhere at the same time as a Rico driver and was going in the same general direction, after he'd left the biker mentioned it to the guy in goods out to which he said "that one just needs to be there today, yours is urgent!" So some customers realise its a different service.

if you look carefully at the screen capture I have now worked out I inadvertently put a space before the Oxford post code the space adds on £300!

I too have lost work to the "Nationals" for a time, but sooner or later they come back after they acknowledge they don't actually get the service level they want. Its a continual battle and does, to a certain extent, cap the price you can charge, or should i say be confident in charging.

We charge a fair price, and one which is competitive with all other independents out there.

The Nationals have definitely affected prices in our industry, eventhough we all know the service level is not comparable. Sometimes its the faceless pen pushers that determine which Couriers get the contracts, and not the people who need the service level we all offer.

I guess its always going to be the same.

Good old banter, ya gotta love it. Keep up the good work guys.