Exchange sites killing the industry?

I've heard it said many times, usually in the forums attached to the very same exchange sites they're slagging off!

The way I look at it, what exchange sites do is allow your freelance driver to attempt to get a return load or a double up, whereas in the past he wouldn't have had the ability to do so unless he'd built up his own network, or worked for a courier company of such a size to allow inter branch work.

It allows the smaller courier compnay to tout for National Contracts by having access to a databse of drivers he wouldn't otherwise have, and gives the courier or courier company the ability to always say yes to his customer because the exchange site gives him a back up

So what is it about an exchange site that's killing the industry... Or do we only want the big boys grabbing all National accounts and subbing out at silly rates?

Without exchange sites ALL National accounts would be beyond us all, so I for one, applaud them

Yes, we are just following the American way unfortunatlely Rob.

Whats killing it rob is the back bedroom freight forwarders taking on work at ridiculous prices purely because they know they can shift the work as backloads on a freight exchange. These people have no vehicle running costs, they are just leeches. They are making it difficult for bona fide courier companies to compete.

I know for a fact that some courier companies I work for, instead of them giving me a job at the full rate, use exchange sites first to try and cover the job first at backload rates. So yes, they killing the industry, and driving courier rates down.

It is NOT rocket science! The blame does not lie with freight forwarders! It is the 'fool' who takes on the Job at ridiculous rates where the problem is.
If forwarders had great difficulty subbing jobs out cheaply, they would have no choice than to pay more or charge their customers more.

Nobody forces drivers to work for peanuts, it is their choice, so it is no use moaning or criticising the provider. In some ways one has to applaud their business model, because as long as they can get folk to take their work good luck to them!

Killing the industry for who?

What's killing the industry is the economy. Sameday work only gets busy when everyone else is so busy they can't get things done in time, so things end up being completed at the last minute and a courier is booked.

Anything which makes things cheaper for the end user should help expand the industry but if the work's not there in the first place, then exchange sites are neither here nor there. In theory they should mean we make roughly the same money for doing less work but I don't suppose that holds true in the real world.

Do these really work? I'm posting a backload on 'exchange' sites and getting no offers on it, so much for people wanting backloads ect... Not quick enough to shift work?

Transdirect Freight Services said:

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Do these really work? I'm posting a backload on 'exchange' sites and getting no offers on it, so much for people wanting backloads ect... Not quick enough to shift work?

Yes exchange sites do work but they work far better for regular posters of work. I think that 80% of offers come from someone who has worked for or considered working for a vendor before; i.e. They have per-vetted the vendor before the opportunity comes in to make an offer. If you don't post much work there will be less couriers in this position.

Transdirect Freight Services said:

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Do these really work? I'm posting a backload on 'exchange' sites and getting no offers on it, so much for people wanting backloads ect... Not quick enough to shift work?

Also I see you have 1 offer on this job:

http://www.mtvan.com/courier-work/b6-to-e10aa-15684

And 2 offers on this job:

http://www.mtvan.com/courier-work/b67hn-to-e10aa-15683

So I don't see how you can claim you're getting no offers (suppose they might not have been there at the time of posting).

I agree with Rob, exchange sites have opened up many opportunities for owner drivers and courier companies. In the late Nineties subbing for a company in Kent I remember many times the controller telling customers sorry I have no one available leaving the customer possibly to go somewhere else, where as now they can confidently say yes and put it on a exchange site as well as probably having some numbers of local owner drivers who have done previous work for them from the said exchange sites.

In those days I would drive to the drop turn around and come back empty. Whereas now I will drop off and then through exchange sites find something else to anywhere thus getting paid many more loaded miles. I think its how you use them and how determined you are to run at a correct rate and patience that can make the difference.

As for sticking together to stop rates dropping, in this country no chance. When I ran my artic I was member of a haulage association who had a demo in London for fuel price rises. I stood the truck for a day went to London and was met by 28 other people. The association had over 10,000 members, says it all really.

Esi Logistics said:

As for sticking together to stop rates dropping, in this country no chance. When I ran my artic I was member of a haulage association who had a demo in London for fuel price rises. I stood the truck for a day went to London and was met by 28 other people. The association had over 10,000 members, says it all really.

But you weren't prevented from voicing you opinion were you. Anyone passionate about something, who wants to make members aware of another members practise, based on factual information, should not be gagged or in extreme cases thrown off the site. It should be remembered that it is the Courier "bidding" for work that pays mtvan not the vendor "selling" it.

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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It is NOT rocket science! The blame does not lie with freight forwarders! It is the 'fool' who takes on the Job at ridiculous rates where the problem is.
If forwarders had great difficulty subbing jobs out cheaply, they would have no choice than to pay more or charge their customers more.

Nobody forces drivers to work for peanuts, it is their choice, so it is no use moaning or criticising the provider. In some ways one has to applaud their business model, because as long as they can get folk to take their work good luck to them!

+1

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Esi Logistics said:

As for sticking together to stop rates dropping, in this country no chance. When I ran my artic I was member of a haulage association who had a demo in London for fuel price rises. I stood the truck for a day went to London and was met by 28 other people. The association had over 10,000 members, says it all really.

But you weren't prevented from voicing you opinion were you. Anyone passionate about something, who wants to make members aware of another members practise, based on factual information, should not be gagged or in extreme cases thrown off the site. It should be remembered that it is the Courier "bidding" for work that pays mtvan not the vendor "selling" it.

I totally agree with your point, I did have the freedom to express my opinion, I just wish more members at that time would have put themselves out to do the same. I am totally in favour of the point you made about people not being gagged when passionate about something and I dont quite understand how I have implied that I feel any different to you in my post. If I have come across like that then it was not intentional.

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Esi Logistics said:

As for sticking together to stop rates dropping, in this country no chance. When I ran my artic I was member of a haulage association who had a demo in London for fuel price rises. I stood the truck for a day went to London and was met by 28 other people. The association had over 10,000 members, says it all really.

But you weren't prevented from voicing you opinion were you. Anyone passionate about something, who wants to make members aware of another members practise, based on factual information, should not be gagged or in extreme cases thrown off the site. It should be remembered that it is the Courier "bidding" for work that pays mtvan not the vendor "selling" it.

Its a real shame that people are having their posts censored and even being thrown of the site. Surely its up to people to make their own mind up about comments posted and to comment freely on what they believe.

Killing the industry -? Keeping rates low - Yes. One of the companies I sub for always put the jobs going up north on Courier Exchange. Great for the people going back empty but not keeping my wheels turning. The local subbies mainly get left with the london jobs. When in discussion about rates I am told noone pays decent rates because of the exchanges. Fact is if they can get the job done for 40p/m then they will.

AM-PM Despatch said:

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Killing the industry -? Keeping rates low - Yes. One of the companies I sub for always put the jobs going up north on Courier Exchange. Great for the people going back empty but not keeping my wheels turning. The local subbies mainly get left with the london jobs. When in discussion about rates I am told noone pays decent rates because of the exchanges. Fact is if they can get the job done for 40p/m then they will.

The fact is [like it or not] it is good business sense to maximise profit!

That is why customers 'ring' round to get the cheapest price.

I keep saying it, but low rates are solely the fault of the person doing the job, doing it cheap does nobody any favours, IF drivers did not work for peanuts, there would be no choice in customers having to pay more, therefore subbies getting paid more. It is NOT the company / person subbing out the job's fault, it is simply good business to make as much as possible, which sadly means a driver willing to turn their wheels for next to nothing will get the work!

Well for me, it's not about the rate, although obviously i'm not going to pay way over the odds, it's more about getting the job covered, and getting it covered quickly.

Do I want to ring around a list of subbies, or do i want an automated online website to do it for me, quickly and without fuss so i can move on to the next job

Thats what exchange sites should be for, and thats how they work for me

AM-PM Despatch said:

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Killing the industry -? Keeping rates low - Yes. One of the companies I sub for always put the jobs going up north on Courier Exchange. Great for the people going back empty but not keeping my wheels turning. The local subbies mainly get left with the london jobs.

I bet I know who that is

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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AM-PM Despatch said:

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Killing the industry -? Keeping rates low - Yes. One of the companies I sub for always put the jobs going up north on Courier Exchange. Great for the people going back empty but not keeping my wheels turning. The local subbies mainly get left with the london jobs. When in discussion about rates I am told noone pays decent rates because of the exchanges. Fact is if they can get the job done for 40p/m then they will.

The fact is [like it or not] it is good business sense to maximise profit!

That is why customers 'ring' round to get the cheapest price.

I keep saying it, but low rates are solely the fault of the person doing the job, doing it cheap does nobody any favours, IF drivers did not work for peanuts, there would be no choice in customers having to pay more, therefore subbies getting paid more. It is NOT the company / person subbing out the job's fault, it is simply good business to make as much as possible, which sadly means a driver willing to turn their wheels for next to nothing will get the work!

It's the law of supply and demand. You can't blame vendors for trying to get the job done cheaply and you can't blame subbies for running at low rates to get the work, because if they don't someone else will.

Tried to sell a car lately that isn't a sought after model? Only the cheapest one that week will sell. Whose fault is that?

MyVanCan said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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AM-PM Despatch said:

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Killing the industry -? Keeping rates low - Yes. One of the companies I sub for always put the jobs going up north on Courier Exchange. Great for the people going back empty but not keeping my wheels turning. The local subbies mainly get left with the london jobs. When in discussion about rates I am told noone pays decent rates because of the exchanges. Fact is if they can get the job done for 40p/m then they will.

The fact is [like it or not] it is good business sense to maximise profit!

That is why customers 'ring' round to get the cheapest price.

I keep saying it, but low rates are solely the fault of the person doing the job, doing it cheap does nobody any favours, IF drivers did not work for peanuts, there would be no choice in customers having to pay more, therefore subbies getting paid more. It is NOT the company / person subbing out the job's fault, it is simply good business to make as much as possible, which sadly means a driver willing to turn their wheels for next to nothing will get the work!

It's the law of supply and demand. You can't blame vendors for trying to get the job done cheaply and you can't blame subbies for running at low rates to get the work, because if they don't someone else will.

Tried to sell a car lately that isn't a sought after model? Only the cheapest one that week will sell. Whose fault is that?

I'm sorry but you CAN blame subbie for running at low rates! If one is not making a useful profit it will not be long before packing it in is on the cards. Matters NOT that someone else will do it cheaply!

That may be the case but that's what I'm saying - there is an oversupply of subbies so that naturally brings prices down. It does in every market. What you can blame subbies for is entering the market in the first place when they have no idea how easy or hard it is to make a profit, but then that may be down to certain people "selling" the idea that it's a viable business.

The main work of exchange sites is to exchange the courier or parcel from location "A" to "B". It matches with job with any of our accredited members local to location A and any members traveling through location A at the right time vehicle. The system sends a notification to all members by email or message. Members will call 'A' with a price and availability. The sub-contractor gets a good outbound job or maximises their empty vehicle on a return journey

We Are Parcel Delivery said:

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The main work of exchange sites is to exchange the courier or parcel from location "A" to "B". It matches with job with any of our accredited members local to location A and any members traveling through location A at the right time vehicle. The system sends a notification to all members by email or message. Members will call 'A' with a price and availability. The sub-contractor gets a good outbound job or maximises their empty vehicle on a return journey

I'm glad you cleared that up for me, I just couldn't get my head round that.

MyVanCan said:

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That may be the case but that's what I'm saying - there is an oversupply of subbies so that naturally brings prices down. It does in every market. What you can blame subbies for is entering the market in the first place when they have no idea how easy or hard it is to make a profit, but then that may be down to certain people "selling" the idea that it's a viable business.

Absolutely right! Far too many chasing too little work.

It is perceived as an easy option, ............................................. Be your own boss, LOVE driving, have absolutely no business acumen, work as and when wants to, [in MOST cases, 9-5 Monday to Thursday, 9 till midday Fridays] Have no idea how to price work, Think that cheap is the route to success, when in reality it is the fastest route to failing.

In short, have no business plan, run around like a numptie for a month or so and then sell the van! All in all a GREAT IDEA :)

Yet they continue to start up in their droves

The only "blame" for me are those that come into this industry without doing their homework or

MyVanCan said:

that may be down to certain people "selling" the idea that it's a viable business.

We are getting more and more that just don't have a clue, and where the fault lies is not for me to say Waht I will say though is that it's down to us to ensure that we keep the calibre to a standard that works for us. If you want to use a "numptee" then you do say at your own risk, if you want them to be an ambassador for both you and your customer, then I assume you will choose someone who fits the bill

Edit

"the you do so at your own risk"

It is clear to me that no one is interested in regulating this industry, so it is up to those that care about standards to self regulate

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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It is clear to me that no one is interested in regulating this industry, so it is up to those that care about standards to self regulate

Your right!

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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It is clear to me that no one is interested in regulating this industry, so it is up to those that care about standards to self regulate

Spot on!

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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It is clear to me that no one is interested in regulating this industry, so it is up to those that care about standards to self regulate

The NCA does exsist but its criteria is such that it probably excludes 95% of couriers

MK Bikes said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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It is clear to me that no one is interested in regulating this industry, so it is up to those that care about standards to self regulate

The NCA does exsist but its criteria is such that it probably excludes 95% of couriers

How about starting an independent one up then Tony?

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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MK Bikes said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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It is clear to me that no one is interested in regulating this industry, so it is up to those that care about standards to self regulate

The NCA does exsist but its criteria is such that it probably excludes 95% of couriers

How about starting an independent one up then Tony?

Not a bad idea (new thread)

If one of the exchange sites were to, then I think it would be a breath of fresh air

Please note i have suggested this more than once

So in the absence of hints falling on deaf ears lets start one

Maybe Mr George?

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Maybe Mr George?

Good plan!

MK Bikes said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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MK Bikes said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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It is clear to me that no one is interested in regulating this industry, so it is up to those that care about standards to self regulate

The NCA does exsist but its criteria is such that it probably excludes 95% of couriers

How about starting an independent one up then Tony?

Not a bad idea (new thread)

I was thinking about this only yesterday.

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Maybe Mr George?

Good plan!

Whether he likes it or not

MK Bikes said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Maybe Mr George?

Good plan!

Whether he likes it or not

Isn't that what Shed5 is anyway? ;-p

He seems to have standards so seems like the obvious choice, and yes Scott maybe you're right

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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He seems to have standards so seems like the obvious choice, and yes Scott maybe you're right

Blimey, don't agree with that comment, we'll both in the sin-bin!

MK Bikes said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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MK Bikes said:

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Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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It is clear to me that no one is interested in regulating this industry, so it is up to those that care about standards to self regulate

The NCA does exsist but its criteria is such that it probably excludes 95% of couriers

How about starting an independent one up then Tony?

Not a bad idea (new thread)

Please do, it's a really interesting topic. There may be a relevant topic already started some time ago (possibly by Rob as he has talked about it before). I do think it could be a very good idea, the tricky part is implementation, vetting etc etc.

I will take a look at the NCA criteria...