Association of UK Couriers

With the NCA (national Couriers association) have a criteria which prevents the membership of a large number of couriers through out the country, what would be your suggestion that such a new association should be concerned about?

For me it should be all about a certain standard of courier

A courier that understands that, although being a company in his own right, whilst working for others he is an ambassador of whoever it is he's working for.

It should also be about the Courier Company having the respect toward a courier, in that no one should expect anyone to do anything that they are not prepard to do themselves.

An acknowledgement that there exists a partnership between the courier and the courier company, and that without the humble courier, the courier company cannot exist, equally that a courier respects the value of the work he is being asked to collect and deliver, and by value i refer not just to its monetary value, but the time and effort made in getting and retaining their customers.

As Rob has rightly pointed out a certain level of set standards but I would even go further to the point of Trading Standards approved just to rid the cowboys.

I also suggest it should be a "not for profit" organisation where whatever annual fee is applied, covers admin costs, the balance of which goes to charity.

The reason for a fee are 2 fold:-

1) to keep the records up to date, i. E. If they don't renew they're either no longer trading, or no longer meet the criteria needed 2) to cover admin whose task would be to keep member info up todate, and to ensure relevant paperwork is recieved and checked

It may well be that you would then have a 2 tier "sameday" courier industry, but you could argue that we have that already.

I know which kind i'd rather use

A pipe dream? Perhaps, but an awful lot of other industries have done similar, and now many of those industries accept nothing else, indeed many have become a legal requirement

Isn't this what the NCA already do? And what about the Despatch Association? What dimension would a third organisation add, that does not already exist?

Neither the NCA nor the Despatch Assocation work, this is obvious by the lack of both Courier Exchange and mtvan members being members of either Association. One is very expensive, the other has around 100 members, which is nothing like what is needed.

Show me an example where being members of either has done anything to enhance their individual companies?

Show me how they have stopped charlatans and flybynights coming into the industry?

Show me what they have done to stop the scammers

Show me what standardisation they have brought into the industry

We need an organisation with clout, that by being a member means something, and by not being a member says something too!

I agree not for profit is a good idea.

I don't agree that the balance should go to charity, I would rather any balance should be reinvested to enhance any such association or help provide members with help in areas such as business training / management, Possible look at trying to lower costs like insurance etc by negotiating better deals with suppliers.

I think an association with clout is needed but the most any association can do is expel a member but when this happens it's already too late.

An association must also gain a reputation of being strict with the criteria and enforce rules to get a trusted status with members and the business users, That way members and businesses will take it seriously and prevent the chancers and scammers.

In forums like this people can only tell others about scammers and the admin can't really do alot apart from allow an open discussion.

An association should have full co operation from members and the ability to furnish the police etc and actively persue any undesirables. Like with the AET Transport scammer a few months ago i actively persued this and the police apprehended the guy and we got paid, It may have been easier and quicker with more member co operation and backup.

Anyway that's my thought, I shall lie down now.

This industry has needed an overhaul for years

There are so many very very good couriers who are leaving the industry and they're being replaced by second and third rate drivers

There are courier companies who's only interest is their profit margin with scant regard for the drivers who are the most important part of all our companies, without them none of us have a company

We have forums full of people moaning about rates, drivers, courier companies, we keep having digs at eachother, at exchange sites, newbies and oldies

And we have the chance to do something about it

I suggested in the past that being a member of mtvan could have been that standard, but it fell on deaf ears, hence this thread and the need for us to self regulate and set our own standards

I like your idea ND about reinvesting any monies for the benefit of members

I was merely pointing out that there wasn't an alterior motive for trying to start such an organistion by making it a money spinner, as the more cynical may have thought

Speed Couriers (Stansted) said:

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Neither the NCA nor the Despatch Assocation work, this is obvious by the lack of both Courier Exchange and mtvan members being members of either Association. One is very expensive, the other has around 100 members, which is nothing like what is needed.

I do not know very much about these organisations, although the NCA does have entry criteria. Could it be that is why there is limited numbers, because of the minimum requirements they impose? Surely the tighter you make the entry criteria, the less members there are going to be anyway, isn't that the whole point?

No Andrew, the point is getting a standard, if the membership is small then it has no merit so is worthless.

There are probably a good 10,000 Couriers out there, and I doubt if 20% have the standard the majority are looking for, but to have 2000 couriers who DO have the relevant standard would make the industry sit up and listen perhaps?

I want a courier who knows the basics, and does the job in a polite no fuss manner that i and a lot of others are accustomed to, but a standard that has dropped alarmingly in the last few years.

As has been said it isn't rocket science and if an Organisation wants to charge £350 a year then it's going to be very exclusive indeed AND have nothing to do with standards but more to do with lining the pockets of those running it.

I am talking about an organisation with a very minimal annual fee, purely to cover admin costs, and a cost that doesn't exclude anyone but one that does exclude those that don't meet whatever critria its members deem appropriate

I spoke to an NCA member on Friday who did a job for us. He was very proud of the fact he was an member of this organisation and it was clear he thought that it enhanced his reputation. However, that said, I do believe the NCA is for courier companies only, whereas the Despatch Association seem to have 2 tiers to include owner drivers too. Not entirely sure how active they are these days, does anyone else know?

Not really relevant how active they are tho is it, because they don't do what it is we want.

What would people hope to gain from it, if it ever took off and they joined?

More work because by being a member its telling everyone you have attained a level whereby you can be trusted to do the job, instead of hoping, which is what a lot seem to be doing nowadays.

Being a Courier used to mean more than buying a van, satnav and mobile phone, so lets get it back to meaning something

And if you think having such an organistaion is elitist then you bet it is, i'd like to keep my head above the shit wouldn't you?

AJM sameday Couriers said:

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What would people hope to gain from it, if it ever took off and they joined?

I dont think its about gaining if they joined, its about an industry standard raising everything, as Rob has rightly pointed out its about getting rid of the cowboys, flyby nights, BBFF's and carriers as shown on dispatches the other day on c4.

Rather than join the above mentioned assiociations, It would be nice to have a courier version of trading standards, registering with trading standards has more recognition and having that stamp is something alot of companies recognise, and be proud to advertise the fact as well.

I think it's a very good idea to set up such an organisation - it may also be useful to have a national register within this which lists all the couriers who meet the professional standards required, i.e. insurance vetted, etc. This sets the minimum standards and conduct we require of couriers.

It is vital that registration is allowed to assure the public and business organisations that we have appropriately 'qualified' couriers who are committed to providing a quality service. Registration should be valid for 12 months with an option for couriers to renew on a yearly basis. Couriers who are approved could have the right to use an 'accreditation' symbol, along with their membership number, and use this on their website, letters, invoices, etc. Businesses, if they wanted to, could then check the register to ensure that the courier's membership is still valid and 'safe' to use.

For an organisation to be strong in supporting the courier field, we also need to be active in dealing with complaints. Receiving complaints is one of the ways we can make sure that the service provided by regulated couriers meets the required standards.

I don't think this kind of organisation should have a section where couriers post or quote for work. We have MTVan, among others, who provide this service. Instead, the organisation should focus on quality, standards, and regulation. It will need a team or a committee to push this forward and to be the voice and leading example of the courier world. It will be a long hard road but with time, commitment and teamwork, it could become the best thing to ever happen...

I'm not been negative, I just can't see how it can work, can somebody explain from the ground up please, then I can fire some questions back, are lass has been an accountant for 20 plus years she has to pay a few hundred pounds fee to cipfa before she can practice, now that is policed very strictly, what I can't get the gist of is say i'm not a member there is nothing stop anybody phoning me up and me doing a job for them whether I do a good or bad job is up to me, sorry for acting a bit thick, I could understand it better if every courier had to join.

I see where your coming from AJM, now that would have to be looked at, but the courier industry should follow suite as the already policed accountant industry. And on that note every courier should join after passing some sort of vetting, then the assiociation could also use the VOSA system by implementing the traffic light system, Green for good, amber for those who have a few problems but are towing the line and red for repeat offenders, but then the courier industry would need to be licensed for anyone who wishes to be apart of that, I suppose like an operator license for couriers.. All this would be an industry standard..

I am not sure the customers give a damn about associations, in the past few years, i only remember only ever been asked once for proof of GIT cover and that's it. At they end of the day, many of them just ring around a few couriers and take the one with the cheapest price, as long as they can get the job done, within the indicated time scales.

However, I think there is a greater need for regulation for the benefit of owner drivers, who take on the risk of sub-contract work and sometimes not getting paid or getting messed around over payment. Perhaps such an association could lay down trading guidelines that must be kept to, effectively making the process of subbing out a job - a contractual process that must be abided by, and invoices paid within a certain timescale. Also, excess profits could go into a reserve fund, to pay out to owner drivers who do not get paid by a bankrupt/dodgy company or for dispute resolution etc

You're right Andrew, most csutomers don't give a dam, but the same can be said of many things until it goes wrong. Toughened glass without a kite mark, fine until someone goes through it hand first and severs an artery. Then a kite mark becomes a bit more important. Am i right in saying all glass must mow have a kite mark?

It may well take time, but what this industry needs is a standard that everyone must adhere to, otherwise they can't trade.

If you look at the taxi industry there are mincabs and hackney carriage cabs, and most councils demand hackney carriage.

I'm not one for unnecessary beaurocracy, but I am one of many who think our industry deserves better.

The kite mark is an example of what having a standard can do

Weed out the bad boys, the flybynights, and lets get a bit more professional

I'm all for not for profit, I don't agree with underwriting a members bad debts, it would remove them of any responsibility of their own actions and would cause problems if one member was bailed out a few times.

Anyone want to add their thoughts on what the criteria should be for such an organistaion to improve the standard of our industry?

Does that mean because I have a Management Degree I can be trusted to manage myself and a business.

Nope

How are things progressing with this idea, are you ready to rock n roll, with this idea in the new year, if not why not?

Will it work? Or will it be as much use as the NCA and DA which are supposed to look after couriers. And as we know seem to be doing 'jack' for us except take subscriptions.

Baaaaa humbugggggggggggggggg.

Waste of time!

Just do the job properly [which so many seem incapable of doing]

Collect on time Communication. advise of any delays etc. Deliver on time. Get a LEGIBLE name and signature.

Price correctly

It isn't Rocket Science!

Hi all, although I don't reply to many items on this site I do like to look at what people are saying and doing. I agree with what is being said on this topic, but with the big 3 sameday companies operating in this industry would a standard charter make any difference. These big 3 don't really care about their subbies as all they want is people running vans with a mobile and satnav and not necessary courier/hire and reward insurance as this would mean they need to increase mileage rates and that's not on their mind. But it would make a difference to the rest of us, wouldn't it?

Vantastic transport said:

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Hi all, although I don't reply to many items on this site I do like to look at what people are saying and doing. I agree with what is being said on this topic, but with the big 3 sameday companies operating in this industry would a standard charter make any difference. These big 3 don't really care about their subbies as all they want is people running vans with a mobile and satnav and not necessary courier/hire and reward insurance as this would mean they need to increase mileage rates and that's not on their mind. But it would make a difference to the rest of us, wouldn't it?

Well said

Be better to get an Audit done by Government work and pensions office. That should bring out a few skeletons.

Its been 10 days since the last post, we've got to keep this to the fore front

RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Waste of time!

Just do the job properly [which so many seem incapable of doing]

Collect on time Communication. advise of any delays etc. Deliver on time. Get a LEGIBLE name and signature.

Price correctly

It isn't Rocket Science!

I agree Alan, but apparently many are incapable, but surely this association thingy is just pie in the sky?

LwsExpress transport solutions said:

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RAPID LIGHT TRANSPORT LTD. said:

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Waste of time!

Just do the job properly [which so many seem incapable of doing]

Collect on time Communication. advise of any delays etc. Deliver on time. Get a LEGIBLE name and signature.

Price correctly

It isn't Rocket Science!

I agree Alan, but apparently many are incapable, but surely this association thingy is just pie in the sky?

Isn't that what they said about anyvan?