Goods In Transit

Would i be right in assuming that an "in-house" good in transit policy means that there isn't one?

What i mean by that is that it hasn't been underwritten by an insurance company but rather the monies collected from the couriers goes into a pot, and any subsequent claim comes out of said pot... Is that how it works?

Just curious cos I'm thinkin of starting our own one up.

We have designed our own GIT scheme in conjunction with a well known insurer (via a broker). If you have enough clout, you can tell an insurer what you want and they will build a policy to suit your company. Obviously, the more you want, the more it is going to cost :)

Simon

I was told by a broker that I couldn't cover self employed riders that worked for me, they had to be employed.

McDonald Logistics said:

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I was told by a broker that I couldn't cover self employed riders that worked for me, they had to be employed.

I was told the same thing too, for years, before I finally found out I could design my own policy :) Anything is possible, if you are prepared to pay for it :)

Simon

A lot depends on getting the consignor or his representative to sign your properly designed and worded Dispatch Note.

Are there any other courier companies on here that have also managed to make an insurance company bend to their will in this manner?

Please let us all know if you have!

[name] said:

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Are there any other courier companies on here that have also managed to make an insurance company bend to their will in this manner?

Please let us all know if you have!

Apart from Robinson Express, I only know of one other courier company who has this type of arrangement :)

Simon

I know I know But they don't re sell it! Not sure it's legal to do so either, do they get policy documents?

McDonald Logistics said:

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I know I know But they don't re sell it! Not sure it's legal to do so either, do they get policy documents?

Actually now i have thought about it, i know of 2 others.

I am not sure what your interpretation of re-selling is, but anyway, the bank holiday is over and tomorrow, I go back to running my business. Happy posting :)

Simon

Robinson Express said:

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Actually now i have thought about it, i know of 2 others.

CRV and Postal& Courier?

Robinson Express said:

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McDonald Logistics said:

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I know I know But they don't re sell it! Not sure it's legal to do so either, do they get policy documents?

Actually now i have thought about it, i know of 2 others.

I am not sure what your interpretation of re-selling is, but anyway, the bank holiday is over and tomorrow, I go back to running my business. Happy posting :)

Andy

TAKING MONEY TO PROVIDE COVER ON A POLICY NOT SUPPLIED TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE

Is there any other interpretation? I know you will have to be careful when answering this question, I'm surprised you did answer

I have never ever heard of any sameday courier actually claiming on a GIT policy.

The goods aren't on board long enough to pose much of a risk factor.

Seems like free cash for the insurers in my opinion.

McDonald Logistics said:

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Robinson Express said:

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McDonald Logistics said:

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I know I know But they don't re sell it! Not sure it's legal to do so either, do they get policy documents?

Actually now i have thought about it, i know of 2 others.

I am not sure what your interpretation of re-selling is, but anyway, the bank holiday is over and tomorrow, I go back to running my business. Happy posting :)

Simon

TAKING MONEY TO PROVIDE COVER ON A POLICY NOT SUPPLIED TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE

Is there any other interpretation? I know you will have to be careful when answering this question, I'm surprised you did answer

The policy is ours and we alone pay for it.

Simon

I do know 1 company that have got git for there drivers who are self employed, but they are limited to 10 drivers maximum, I wonder how many courier experts is allowed, surely not 3000? Because that would cost a fortune

Thorpe & Sons said:

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I do know 1 company that have got git for there drivers who are self employed, but they are limited to 10 drivers maximum, I wonder how many courier experts is allowed, surely not 3000? Because that would cost a fortune

Y'know, I wondered the same myself. But then I realised that Andy runs such a powerful company it has increduble negotiating power to let him dictate what they have to do for him. And he's a brilliant negotiator too.

Sez he.

And there you have the loophole which many take advantage of. You can indeed have GIT for 10 drivers, and you don't have to name which 10 drivers. Makes a mockery of the whole thing really.

I dont know why everybody is kicking up a fuss about GIT insurance as its relatively inexpensive to buy your own, id be more concerned if the couriers concerned had got the right vehicle insurance ie "hire and reward" because without this the GIT insurance would be null and void anyway!

Long Services said:

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And there you have the loophole which many take advantage of. You can indeed have GIT for 10 drivers, and you don't have to name which 10 drivers. Makes a mockery of the whole thing really.

I certainly didn't ask for a policy that only covers 10 drivers, even if i didn't have to name them. Although I can see how a company with a smaller number of couriers might be able to use this to their advantage. If it is in fact a genuine loophole.

Simon

Farrell Logistics said:

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Thorpe & Sons said:

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I do know 1 company that have got git for there drivers who are self employed, but they are limited to 10 drivers maximum, I wonder how many courier experts is allowed, surely not 3000? Because that would cost a fortune

Y'know, I wondered the same myself. But then I realised that Simon runs such a powerful company it has increduble negotiating power to let him dictate what they have to do for him. And he's a brilliant negotiator too.

Sez he.

Dennis, Thanks for the compliment but all I really had to do was find out who the right people were to talk to, as most brokers have never heard of it either.

Simon

Roberts & Sons said:

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I dont know why everybody is kicking up a fuss about GIT insurance as its relatively inexpensive to buy your own, id be more concerned if the couriers concerned had got the right vehicle insurance ie "hire and reward" because without this the GIT insurance would be null and void anyway!

That point was raised and expertly avoided in another recent thread. :-)

[name] said:

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Roberts & Sons said:

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I dont know why everybody is kicking up a fuss about GIT insurance as its relatively inexpensive to buy your own, id be more concerned if the couriers concerned had got the right vehicle insurance ie "hire and reward" because without this the GIT insurance would be null and void anyway!

That point was raised and expertly avoided in another recent thread. :-)

It was answered, but unfortunately you think you have more expertise than the insurance company who have negotiated and provided our cover. As you are not likely to be doing any work for Robinson Express, it hardly matters in your case.

Anyway, we can only agree to differ.

Simon

Yes [name], proper courier insurance is by far and away a much bigger issue, and one that if everyone had it, would be more reflected in the prices currently being offered. The fact that rates are so low, tells me and a lot more besides that many supposed couriers have NOT got adequate cover. This is either down to ignorance, or avoidance and i believe it to be rife in our industry. Something that many vendors seem to care very little about.

The reason GIT crops up is purely down to the fact that people want their goods covered, and care little whether the drivers vehicle is covered. The fact that one is probably voided by the lack of the other seems to have been very much forgotten.

Excuses such as "haven't got time to check" or "haven't got the resources to check" are feeble. If you really don't have the time or resources for something so important then i say you have your priorities in the wrong place. There is an answer though... Use an exchange site that has done the checking for you.

And before someone says " ah yes but they can cancel it the next day" yes they can indeed but is that likely?

Just another feeble excuse for not checking.

Its all very well spending time and money on sale and marketing, and we all understand that we want every job covered asap, but you have a responsibilty to those that DO pay for the correct insurance to check and weed out those that don't.

I want our industry to be one i can be proud of being apart of. One that has standards, that has morals, One that has a set of rules we all adhere to.

I may well be after something that isn't possible, but that doesn't mean its wrong

Robinson Express said:

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[name] said:

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Roberts & Sons said:

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I dont know why everybody is kicking up a fuss about GIT insurance as its relatively inexpensive to buy your own, id be more concerned if the couriers concerned had got the right vehicle insurance ie "hire and reward" because without this the GIT insurance would be null and void anyway!

That point was raised and expertly avoided in another recent thread. :-)

It was answered, but unfortunately you think you have more expertise than the insurance company who have negotiated and provided our cover. As you are not likely to be doing any work for courier expert, it hardly matters in your case.

Anyway, we can only agree to differ.

Andy

No, it was definitely avoided.

The point being made was that any driver who needs you to cover him under your GIT policy almost certainly DOES NOT have proper hire and reward insurance, thereby voiding any supplemental insurance which you provide on his behalf.

Scott.

As I said before on the other thread , The sort of car couriers that are currently being encouraged to "sign up" are not going to swop their current £300 SDP car insurance policy for a £1200 H&R policy where there will be at least a deposit of 20-25% (approx £300) to earn a bit of extra money when their insurance won't be checked anyway, are they?

Absolutley...

Just out of interest how did white arrow and yellow pages get round this?

Long Services said:

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Absolutley...

Just out of interest how did white arrow and yellow pages get round this?

And these people that do home deliveries for next and yodel in their cars

Also noticed on here that a few drivers have "not required" in the GIT section on their profile page, whys it not required?

[name] said:

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Robinson Express said:

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[name] said:

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Roberts & Sons said:

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I dont know why everybody is kicking up a fuss about GIT insurance as its relatively inexpensive to buy your own, id be more concerned if the couriers concerned had got the right vehicle insurance ie "hire and reward" because without this the GIT insurance would be null and void anyway!

That point was raised and expertly avoided in another recent thread. :-)

It was answered, but unfortunately you think you have more expertise than the insurance company who have negotiated and provided our cover. As you are not likely to be doing any work for Robinson Express, it hardly matters in your case.

Anyway, we can only agree to differ.

Simon

No, it was definitely avoided.

The point being made was that any driver who needs you to cover him under your GIT policy almost certainly DOES NOT have proper hire and reward insurance, thereby voiding any supplemental insurance which you provide on his behalf.

Scott.

Disagreeing with you is not avoiding the question....

I say your wrong / You say I am wrong.

As i said earlier, we can only agree to differ.

Simon

Roberts & Sons said:

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Also noticed on here that a few drivers have "not required" in the GIT section on their profile page, whys it not required?

I'm guessing it relates to Courier Companies who only "sell" rather than "quote" for work.

Either that its its cos they have rolled up their right trouser leg and beared their breast... Something which i certainly don't recall... But that doesn't mean much

Long Services said:

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Excuses such as "haven't got time to check" or "haven't got the resources to check" are feeble. If you really don't have the time or resources for something so important then i say you have your priorities in the wrong place. There is an answer though... Use an exchange site that has done the checking for you.

And before someone says " ah yes but they can cancel it the next day" yes they can indeed but is that likely?

Just another feeble excuse for not checking.

Its all very well spending time and money on sale and marketing, and we all understand that we want every job covered asap, but you have a responsibilty to those that DO pay for the correct insurance to check and weed out those that don't.

I want our industry to be one i can be proud of being apart of. One that has standards, that has morals, One that has a set of rules we all adhere to.

I may well be after something that isn't possible, but that doesn't mean its wrong

I refer you to your own post on this matter...

Speed Couriers Nationwide Ltd 9008 Wednesday 3rd April 2013 Shed 5....small exchange, and there is the problem in a nutshell It may well ensure everyone has the relevant papaerwork, but can it cover the work? The bigger the site, the less time you have to check stuff out, unless you employ people to do it, which means higher costs to the members... So what do you want?

Not having a go, I just think you have raised a valid point :)

Simon

Blimey was that really over a year ago. I think we have a duty, you included, to ensure every courier we use has the relevant documentation, either by using an exchange site that has made the checks for you, or by you doing the checking like in the "good old days" before exchange sites existed. Part of becoming a courier back then was to provide copies of your license, insurance and GIT. Without them you wouldn't be taken on, so why should the introduction of exchange sites make that criteria any different?

If part of joining an exchange site, or indeed your own network site, included the need to upload all of the above, without which they couldn't join, then i can't see how it would take up any time at all. They are doing the work for you. If that is your criteria to join, then everyone who has joined has therefore got the required insurance etc.

As far as I can see it the reason some sites DO NOT ask for this is simple. They don't care about it, they just want the numbers. If you allow anyone to join then you are responsible for the growing number of drivers not covered properly, which like it or not is dumbing down the quality of driver. Stands to reason. Actually it's so obvious I can't see anyone having an argument against it. If someone can't be bothered uploading some documents to be able to quote for work, then why would anyone want to give them work in the 1st place?

Clarke Services said:

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Been asked to take 18 barrels of beer down to the Reading Beer Festival would you class this a ADR or not, the only problem is its from my local brewery & they do some really nice hand pulled beers.

It's not ADR. Hand pulled are not even pressurized. CO2 bottles are ADR though.

Long Services said:

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I think we have a duty, you included, to ensure every courier we use has the relevant documentation, either by using an exchange site that has made the checks for you, or by you doing the checking like in the "good old days" before exchange sites existed. Part of becoming a courier back then was to provide copies of your license, insurance and GIT. Without them you wouldn't be taken on, so why should the introduction of exchange sites make that criteria any different?

If part of joining an exchange site, or indeed your own network site, included the need to upload all of the above, without which they couldn't join, then i can't see how it would take up any time at all. They are doing the work for you. If that is your criteria to join, then everyone who has joined has therefore got the required insurance etc.

As far as I can see it the reason some sites DO NOT ask for this is simple. They don't care about it, they just want the numbers. If you allow anyone to join then you are responsible for the growing number of drivers not covered properly, which like it or not is dumbing down the quality of driver. Stands to reason. Actually it's so obvious I can't see anyone having an argument against it. If someone can't be bothered uploading some documents to be able to quote for work, then why would anyone want to give them work in the 1st place?

Andy, you missed the point

If part of the process of joining is to upload their insurance documents then it isn't taking up anyones time other than theirs. To proceed to becoming a paid up member they HAVE to upload. You then know that whoever does join MUST therefore have the relevant insurance. Simple

Sorry to be blunt, but if you have any work needs covering you're better sticking it on an exchange site and get it covered that way than ringing round a dozen or so couriers who may or may not be about... Saves a lot of time.

Here on mtvan the ability to quote for posted jobs is based simply on the basis of whether the subbie has paid to access the site. (Admin, I know that this is a rather simplistic generalisation since certain members have had free memberships granted, however in general this is the theory!

The only documentation that is asked to be uploaded is GIT insurance document.

Would it really be so difficult for mtvan to oblige subbies to upload both H&R and GIT along with their subscription purchase before they are granted the ability to quote for posted jobs?

In theory, this should not be any more difficult programmatically than the process currently in place to upload GIT documentation!

I fully appreciate that it is not possible to ACTUALLY check the validity of the documentation received, but as has been pointed out in other posts, it would be very unusual for someone to go to the trouble of making the initial payment for an insurance policy and then cancelling it later.

At least then Mtvan can be sure that it has complied with the most basic and simple due diligence checks required by any courier company and the courier companies can be sure that any quote received is from a courier who has at least uploaded an insurance policy in their name which states Carriage of goods for H&R and a GIT policy.

Again, I do accept that it is impossible for Mtvan to actually verify these documents, but at least making the uploading of this documentation before allowing subbies access to quote on work would mean that mtvan has done everything it can to ensure the validity of the driver.

Robinson Express said:

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Long Services said:

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Andy, you missed the point

If part of the process of joining is to upload their insurance documents then it isn't taking up anyones time other than theirs. To proceed to becoming a paid up member they HAVE to upload. You then know that whoever does join MUST therefore have the relevant insurance. Simple

They already have to upload a photo of their driving license and a photo of their vehicle and this leads to a tremendous amount of support calls. If we then ask people to upload copies of this, that and the other insurances - half of them will upload the wrong documents, a quarter will not succeed in doing it at all and hopefully the final quarter may just do it without any bother. Most of them will lead to numerous phone calls asking us to explain step by step how to do XYZ and we will spend most our time chasing documents and explaining the difference between a policy schedule and a certificate, what the exclusions list is and how to get the right docs from their insurers...

I know all the above because I have been there before. You will never convince me, no matter how much technology is involved, that this is a task that can be done without paying someone (or people) a full time wage!

If you won't take my word for it, ask CX. Why do you think they charge £150 per new member for it? Take it from them, they have been doing it for over 10 years and they know the true cost of of this task.

Andy

So half of the people you are employing to cover your work are probably uninsured, but definitely too stupid to upload 2 documents?

Andy, the only way that you, I, Courier Exchange or anyone else has of verifying an insurance document is in the moment that you make an actual claim.

But at the very least requesting a copy of the drivers insurance certificate proves that you as a courier company have performed the basic due diligence to ensure that you are not sub-contracting to an improperly insured courier.

So you could just do exactly the same as Courier Exchange do, take the documentation, tick the box and file it.

But to actively encourage improperly insured couriers just to get £4 per week from them?

Come on!

If someone can't work out how to upload a document then i'm not sure i'd want them carrying any goods of mine... lol

[name] said:

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Simon, the only way that you, I, Courier Exchange or anyone else has of verifying an insurance document is in the moment that you make an actual claim.

But at the very least requesting a copy of the drivers insurance certificate proves that you as a courier company have performed the basic due diligence to ensure that you are not sub-contracting to an improperly insured courier.

So you could just do exactly the same as Courier Exchange do, take the documentation, tick the box and file it.

But to actively encourage improperly insured couriers just to get £4 per week from them?

Come on!

And I could also try and charge £150 a time like Courier Exchange do. As I have said before, it has to be paid for and there is the big question. Would my members be prepared to pay more for this measure? What do you think?

Simon

Long Services said:

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If someone can't work out how to upload a document then i'm not sure i'd want them carrying any goods of mine... Lol

I bet he wishes he'd thought about that addition to the thread a little bit longer [name] :-)

I'm sorry but i fail to see how getting people to upload documents as part of their registration has a cost element to it. From what you say it also seems a bloody good way of weeding out those that are clearly to dumb to do the basic of tasks. So a win win situation but lets face it one that would mean you get less bonafide couriers and therfore even less chance of you being able to cover your work.

You don't really want REAL couriers anyway... Your rates suggest that, what you need are people not looking for full time work, but are available to cover the odd delivery from time to time... And that means drivers not insured to do courier work

Long Services said:

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I'm sorry but i fail to see how getting people to upload documents as part of their registration has a cost element to it. From what you say it also seems a bloody good way of weeding out those that are clearly to dumb to do the basic of tasks. So a win win situation but lets face it one that would mean you get less bonafide couriers and therfore even less chance of you being able to cover your work.

You don't really want REAL couriers anyway... Your rates suggest that, what you need are people not looking for full time work, but are available to cover the odd delivery from time to time... And that means drivers not insured to do courier work

+1 (again), he ought to be putting his work on Anyvan.

Long Services said:

You don't really want REAL couriers anyway... Your rates suggest that,

I am not defending their rates but do you think [business], [business] and royal mail are also not looking for real couriers. despite paying less?

Interested to hear your opinion :)

Simon

Long Services said:

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I'm sorry but i fail to see how getting people to upload documents as part of their registration has a cost element to it.

Just that alone, wouldn't be too costly. Making sure it is done properly, with policies checked and exclusions examined, then the thankless task of telling people their GIT is inadequate (as many are) etc, explaining the difference between schedules and policy documents and then dealing with the usual response of:

'This is all the insurance company sent me, how do i get the rest of the documents you want?'

That is the time consuming and costly part of the process. Simply just asking people to upload documents that never get checked or challenged is utterly pointless.

Simon

Ensuring people are covered legally to take on the work offered to them is as much a part of the whole package as taking the call for the job you ultimately give them. You can't pick and choose which expenses you incur in the process if you want to be considered even remotely credible by others in this business.

Its your fault for dealing 3,000 newbies

Such flimsy, ridiculous excuses which have already been dismissed on numerous occasions by some very well reasoned logical statements, but which CE continues to try and defend.

Lol, I am loving these threads.

Robinson Express said:

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Long Services said:

You don't really want REAL couriers anyway... Your rates suggest that,

I am not defending their rates but do you think city sprint, rico and royal mail are also not looking for real couriers. despite paying less?

Interested to hear your opinion :)

Andy

Nope, they are just looking for people to run around mental for a pittance as well. That's why they no longer try advertising their work on here. They tried and failed.

Still no justification for you to copy their misguided business practices in the assumption that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[name] said:

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Robinson Express said:

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Long Services said:

You don't really want REAL couriers anyway... Your rates suggest that,

I am not defending their rates but do you think city sprint, rico and royal mail are also not looking for real couriers. despite paying less?

Interested to hear your opinion :)

Simon

Nope, they are just looking for people to run around mental for a pittance as well. That's why they no longer try advertising their work on here. They tried and failed.

Still no justification for you to copy their misguided business practices in the assumption that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Improving on it, yes. Copying it, no.

Simon

[name] said:

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Such flimsy, ridiculous excuses which have already been dismissed on numerous occasions by some very well reasoned logical statements, but which CE continues to try and defend.

Lol, I am loving these threads.

Checking documents is not something that has been totally written off and personally, I think the idea has merit. But until someone shows me a way to do it, so it does not incur any significant increase in cost, which I would have to pass on to my 3000 members, then for now it remains a good idea which unfortunately, the majority are not prepared to pay for.

Simon

Robinson Express said:

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Long Services said:

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Andy, you missed the point

If part of the process of joining is to upload their insurance documents then it isn't taking up anyones time other than theirs. To proceed to becoming a paid up member they HAVE to upload. You then know that whoever does join MUST therefore have the relevant insurance. Simple

They already have to upload a photo of their driving license and a photo of their vehicle and this leads to a tremendous amount of support calls. If we then ask people to upload copies of this, that and the other insurances - half of them will upload the wrong documents, a quarter will not succeed in doing it at all and hopefully the final quarter may just do it without any bother. Most of them will lead to numerous phone calls asking us to explain step by step how to do XYZ and we will spend most our time chasing documents and explaining the difference between a policy schedule and a certificate, what the exclusions list is and how to get the right docs from their insurers...

I know all the above because I have been there before. You will never convince me, no matter how much technology is involved, that this is a task that can be done without paying someone (or people) a full time wage!

If you won't take my word for it, ask CX. Why do you think they charge £150 per new member for it? Take it from them, they have been doing it for over 10 years and they know the true cost of of this task.

Andy

Courier Exchange don't charge for checking documents. My guess is this is just another charge for courier expert to make even more money. At the end of the day, you are encouraging people to be uninsured carrying your customers goods. You may offer your goods in transit, but like others have said, the hire and reward is the most important insurance of all. You really should be checking it yourself as reassurance for your customer I would've thought

[business] said:

Courier Exchange don't charge for checking documents.

[name] there really is no point arguing about this, the charge is publicly displayed on their own website and it's actually even higher than i thought it was.

'A minimum subscription period of 6 months applies and all subscriptions are subject to a £169 accreditation fee.'

Click Here to See CX Charges

Simon

[business] said:

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Robinson Express said:

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the majority are not prepared to pay for.

........ My guess is this is just another charge for courier expert to make even more money. At the end of the day

I'm not sure why you think someone else should pay for this, if you are as successful as you say there should be more than enough scope for this.

As has been said before not to do so is tantamount to being indifferent as to whether they are insured correctly

Could there be another reason why they wouldn't want to upload them?

McDonald Logistics said:

I'm not sure why you think someone else should pay for this, if you are as successful as you say there should be more than enough scope for this.

I think the best organization to ask this question to, is the one that actually does charge for it. So i'll leave that with you, your good at asking questions.....

The same ones, over and over again..... zzzzzzzz

'A minimum subscription period of 6 months applies and all subscriptions are subject to a £169 accreditation fee.' Click Here to See CX Charges

Simon :)

McDonald Logistics said:

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Could there be another reason why they wouldn't want to upload them?

Robinson Express said:

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[business] said:

Courier Exchange don't charge for checking documents.

[name] there really is no point arguing about this, the charge is publicly displayed on their own website and it's actually even higher than i thought it was.

'A minimum subscription period of 6 months applies and all subscriptions are subject to a £169 accreditation fee.'

Click Here to See CX Charges

Andy

But your not courier exchange and you don't have the amount of work that courier exchange has either. On another note, stop emailing me your sameday retail crap aswell. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN IT

McDonald Logistics said:

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McDonald Logistics said:

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Could there be another reason why they wouldn't want to upload them?

And you accuse me of avoidance? Lol

As i said before, it's always something that is under consideration but if £169 + vat, per courier is really the true cost of carrying out this task, then we are a long way from making it a reality.

Simon

Robinson Express said:

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[business] said:

Courier Exchange don't charge for checking documents.

[name] there really is no point arguing about this, the charge is publicly displayed on their own website and it's actually even higher than i thought it was.

'A minimum subscription period of 6 months applies and all subscriptions are subject to a £169 accreditation fee.'

Click Here to See CX Charges

Simon

[business] said:

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Robinson Express said:

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[business] said:

Courier Exchange don't charge for checking documents.

[name] there really is no point arguing about this, the charge is publicly displayed on their own website and it's actually even higher than i thought it was.

'A minimum subscription period of 6 months applies and all subscriptions are subject to a £169 accreditation fee.'

Click Here to See CX Charges

Simon

But your not courier exchange

How true....

But your argument was about the courier exchange charges.

Simon

I was going to watch Jerremy Kyle. But this is far better, what a load of bollocks.

[business] said:

On another note, stop emailing me your sameday retail crap aswell. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN IT

You are not getting any automatic alerts for retail. Because your on our database as a supplier, you get included in any manual emails sent by the controllers for very difficult to cover jobs. We have no way of filtering suppliers based on what the email is about for hand typed emails.

If you want deleting from our database altogether, then we can do that as long as there are no pending invoices in the system.

Simon

Wood & Sons said:

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I was going to watch Jerremy Kyle. But this is far better, what a load of bollocks.

More like Zulu Dawn.

Simon :)

Robinson Express said:

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McDonald Logistics said:

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McDonald Logistics said:

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Could there be another reason why they wouldn't want to upload them?

And you accuse me of avoidance? Lol

As i said before, it's always something that is under consideration but if £169 + vat, per courier is really the true cost of carrying out this task, then we are a long way from making it a reality.

Andy

Can I then ask why it is you think you should charge extra for it? You say because C X charge it! But you are not an exchange, as I said before checking your regular subbies documents is something all subbers should do. [business] nor [business] charge it.

Robinson Express said:

As i said before, it's always something that is under consideration but if £169 + vat, per courier is really the true cost of carrying out this task, then we are a long way from making it a reality.

Andy

I really don't believe you, why is £169 the true cost? because someone else says so?

I bet the true cost of flying to Milan was £130 before easy jet did it for £29 (to use another of your analogies)

CHRIST. Doe anyone actually have the time to carry any goods in transit? Everyone's on here! (I'm on my way to Leeds by the way).

Robinson Express said:

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[name] said:

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Andy, the only way that you, I, Courier Exchange or anyone else has of verifying an insurance document is in the moment that you make an actual claim.

But at the very least requesting a copy of the drivers insurance certificate proves that you as a courier company have performed the basic due diligence to ensure that you are not sub-contracting to an improperly insured courier.

So you could just do exactly the same as Courier Exchange do, take the documentation, tick the box and file it.

But to actively encourage improperly insured couriers just to get £4 per week from them?

Come on!

And I could also try and charge £150 a time like Courier Exchange do. As I have said before, it has to be paid for and there is the big question. Would my members be prepared to pay more for this measure? What do you think?

Andy

Andy 4 per week is £208 per annum plues the $25 joining fee

And then there vodka and tonic on that as well so another 20% (46.60) total £279

Robinson Express said:

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[name] said:

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Robinson Express said:

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Long Services said:

You don't really want REAL couriers anyway... Your rates suggest that,

I am not defending their rates but do you think city sprint, rico and royal mail are also not looking for real couriers. despite paying less?

Interested to hear your opinion :)

Andy

Nope, they are just looking for people to run around mental for a pittance as well. That's why they no longer try advertising their work on here. They tried and failed.

Still no justification for you to copy their misguided business practices in the assumption that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Improving on it, yes. Copying it, no.

Andy

Improving on it lol. Load of crap.

McDonald Logistics said:

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Robinson Express said:

As i said before, it's always something that is under consideration but if £169 + vat, per courier is really the true cost of carrying out this task, then we are a long way from making it a reality.

Simon

I really don't believe you, why is £169 the true cost? because someone else says so?

I bet the true cost of flying to Milan was £130 before easy jet did it for £29 (to use another of your analogies)

I don't know, it was a question. Those guys have been doing it for long enough, so probably know better than anyone else what kind of resource is needed to undertake the task. However, you really are better asking them, not me.

As for your easy jet scenario, i agree. If there is a cheaper way to do something and it works, then of course i am interested :)

Simon

McDonald Logistics said:

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Robinson Express said:

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McDonald Logistics said:

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McDonald Logistics said:

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Could there be another reason why they wouldn't want to upload them?

And you accuse me of avoidance? Lol

As i said before, it's always something that is under consideration but if £169 + vat, per courier is really the true cost of carrying out this task, then we are a long way from making it a reality.

Simon

Can I then ask why it is you think you should charge extra for it? You say because C X charge it! But you are not an exchange, as I said before checking your regular subbies documents is something all subbers should do. [business] nor [business] charge it.

My original argument was that we would have to charge a fee like CX (my running costs are similar) or by reduced rates, like [business], [business] etc

Simon

Robinson Express said:

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Robinson Express said:

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[business] said:

Courier Exchange don't charge for checking documents.

[name] there really is no point arguing about this, the charge is publicly displayed on their own website and it's actually even higher than i thought it was.

'A minimum subscription period of 6 months applies and all subscriptions are subject to a £169 accreditation fee.'

Click Here to See CX Charges

Andy

[business] said:

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Robinson Express said:

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[business] said:

Courier Exchange don't charge for checking documents.

[name] there really is no point arguing about this, the charge is publicly displayed on their own website and it's actually even higher than i thought it was.

'A minimum subscription period of 6 months applies and all subscriptions are subject to a £169 accreditation fee.'

Click Here to See CX Charges

Andy

But your not courier exchange

How true....

But your argument was about the courier exchange charges.

Andy

I wasn't arguing about Courier Exchange charges. All I said was that they don't charge for checking documents. Its all in with membership fee

You do pay reduced rates already!

I think you're all missing the point. If your business model does not include asking to see vaild documentation of potentail members at the point of registration then your business model is wrong. If your costs haven't included the fundamental need to see that a driver has 1-a driving license, 2- correct vehicle insurance and 3-GIT cover, then that business model is flawed.

It allows people to come into the industry without some or all of those things, and that allows them to undercut you.

If i started a catering business without a food hygene certificate you'd think i was mad, or without a water supply?

What i'm saying is this is the same thing. It is very much part and parcel (excuse the pun) of what we do as couriers and courier companies even before we go touting for business.

And if you hide behind the "its not affordable" then you have a duty to make it affordable, and if you don't then you don't have a business model in the 1st place becasue it has a very important bit missing. The legality of the drivers you intend to use.

But all of this is painting over the real reason behind the excuses.

Andys business model is about getting numbers to sign up. He sees ensuring the legalities of those potential members as an obstacle to that goal.

[business] said:

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Robinson Express said:

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Robinson Express said:

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[business] said:

Courier Exchange don't charge for checking documents.

[name] there really is no point arguing about this, the charge is publicly displayed on their own website and it's actually even higher than i thought it was.

'A minimum subscription period of 6 months applies and all subscriptions are subject to a £169 accreditation fee.'

Click Here to See CX Charges

Simon

[business] said:

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Robinson Express said:

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[business] said:

Courier Exchange don't charge for checking documents.

[name] there really is no point arguing about this, the charge is publicly displayed on their own website and it's actually even higher than i thought it was.

'A minimum subscription period of 6 months applies and all subscriptions are subject to a £169 accreditation fee.'

Click Here to See CX Charges

Simon

But your not courier exchange

How true....

But your argument was about the courier exchange charges.

Simon

I wasn't arguing about Courier Exchange charges. All I said was that they don't charge for checking documents. Its all in with membership fee

How is this included in the membership fee?

'A minimum subscription period of 6 months applies and all subscriptions are subject to a £169 accreditation fee.'

It is clearly an additional one off charge, on top of the member fees.

Simon

McDonald Logistics said:

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You do pay reduced rates already!

We pay 19 pplm more than [business].

Simon

Long Services said:

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I think you're all missing the point. If your business model does not include asking to see vaild documentation of potentail members at the point of registration then your business model is wrong. If your costs haven't included the fundamental need to see that a driver has 1-a driving license, 2- correct vehicle insurance and 3-GIT cover, then that business model is flawed.

It allows people to come into the industry without some or all of those things, and that allows them to undercut you.

If i started a catering business without a food hygene certificate you'd think i was mad, or without a water supply?

What i'm saying is this is the same thing. It is very much part and parcel (excuse the pun) of what we do as couriers and courier companies even before we go touting for business.

And if you hide behind the "its not affordable" then you have a duty to make it affordable, and if you don't then you don't have a business model in the 1st place becasue it has a very important bit missing. The legality of the drivers you intend to use.

But all of this is painting over the real reason behind the excuses.

Andys business model is about getting numbers to sign up. He sees ensuring the legalities of those potential members as an obstacle to that goal.

As I said, the idea has merit and some organizations fund this by either charging an accreditation fee or pay paying rates lower than Robinson Express pay. I have not written off the idea, but I suspect the most likely way forward for ourselves (and indeed exchanges like this one) would be for a 2 tier membership, where the higher grade members are vetted and checked.

However, for now it's not at the front of the development agenda, because it is not what our customers are asking for. Their goods are covered by our own insurance anyway. For the immediate future, software development time is going to be spent on a tracking solution, as my largest customers want and expect this, above all else at the moment.

Simon

Sorry Andy but "its not what our customers want" is irrelevant. Its a legal requirement for Couriers to have the correct insurance. If your customers don't care, then they should.

The biggest gripe for couriers is having to compete with drivers who either deliberately or through ignorance, have not got proper insurance.

By far and away the best way to sort out this growing problem is to not allow them access to ANY exchange site or network site in the 1st place otherwise you are just adding to the problem. You have a duty to ensure that those you are introducing into the industry do so legally.

The issue with rates will never go away, but if its a level playing field then what people want to "sell" themselves for becomes up to them, not down to the savings they've made by not being insured

Long Services said:

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Sorry Simon but "its not what our customers want" is irrelevant.

I am sure there are quite a number of now bankrupt companies that took that attitude.

Every business, not just couriers, have suppliers. And it is always the suppliers responsibility to make sure they operate within the law. It is not our legal responsibility to check any suppliers - employees yes, but suppliers, as self employed people and business, must accept and carry out their own responsibilities.

Having said that, I am not saying no, I am we'll look at it for the future. We can only work on one project at a time and the next one is tracking.

Simon

Andy thats a naughty out of context quote as well you know, so lets put the whole quote there

Long Services said:

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Sorry Andy but "its not what our customers want" is irrelevant. Its a legal requirement for Couriers to have the correct insurance. If your customers don't care, then they should.

The biggest gripe for couriers is having to compete with drivers who either deliberately or through ignorance, have not got proper insurance.

By far and away the best way to sort out this growing problem is to not allow them access to ANY exchange site or network site in the 1st place otherwise you are just adding to the problem. You have a duty to ensure that those you are introducing into the industry do so legally.

The issue with rates will never go away, but if its a level playing field then what people want to "sell" themselves for becomes up to them, not down to the savings they've made by not being insured

It really isn't defendable. Its your responsibiltyto ensure whoever you are using to carry your customers goods are insured. You seem to think its nothing to do with you, but your customers are going to come to you if something goes wrong, not the courier, because it is you they gave the job to. Who you subbed it out to is not their concern.

At the end of the day, having hire & reward for business use is a legal requirement and that the bottoms line. You cant argue with ignorance can you. This is just encouraging people to drive illegally and admin should do something about it as well having members trading in such a bad way on their site

CE rates are good when you claim the dole as well which has been going on in this industry (like many others) for years.

As adults do we have to keep bashing [name] it just gives a platform to shine on.

[name]

It is my understanding of the law that a transport company remains liable for their customers goods when sub contracting, should a claim arise they must in turn claim from the sub contractors insurers.

Hopkins Haulage said:

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It is my understanding of the law that a transport company remains liable for their customers goods when sub contracting, should a claim arise they must in turn claim from the sub contractors insurers.

Too many vendors care diddly squat about whether the courier is insured or not and that is where the problem lies.

If everyone adhered to the law then undercutting those that do the right thing wouldn't be so prevelent.

It is grossly unfair that those that conform are losing out to those that don't, be it a courier losing a job on an exchange site, or a Company losing a contract.

That is why there needs to be a courier charter to sign up to, one that isn't purely out to make money from it either!

Hopkins Haulage said:

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It is my understanding of the law that a transport company remains liable for their customers goods when sub contracting, should a claim arise they must in turn claim from the sub contractors insurers.

As per my understanding, you are correct. Although not entirely sure whether it is law or simply common operating practice. In the first instance the insurer will always seek to claim off the sub-contractors insurance, where it exists. It may not exist for a number of reasons, different policies have different exclusions, different excesses, the policy could have been cancelled or never have existed at all. They will then try working backwards - for example a job could have been sub-contracted 3 times. Eventually, if there is no where else to claim it from, the claim goes against the original transport companies insurance.

Simon

I think what he's saying Andy is your customer will come to you 1st irrespective who you give it to, so its in your interest to make sure everyone in your network has adequate cover.

Hewitt Logistics said:

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I have never ever heard of any sameday courier actually claiming on a GIT policy.

The goods aren't on board long enough to pose much of a risk factor.

Seems like free cash for the insurers in my opinion.

Exactly!

GIT is there for the time that you get shunted from behind when you have been forced to stop on a motorway.

Should never be needed, but most of us have seen a vehicle in that situation and thanked our lucky stars that it wasn't us.

GIT has nothing to do with being shunted from behind, its to cover the goods you're carrying from being lost (unlikely), stolen (possible if you're stupid enough to leave the vehicle unlocked when buying your fuel) or damaged ( you drop it or some dozy sod sticks his forklift through the side of it). Either way, whether you think its worth it or not is hardly the point . You have to have it

It is a cash cow for the insurers, Some GIT cover have limitations in the small print. Anything from £15.00 per kilo to excluding some items for carriage.

We have an umbrella policy for our own vehicles and subcontractors with FULL value cover upto 20K

If someone did shunt you from behind i would assume that all costs would eventually be paid out by the at fault person's insurers.

Can't argue with what you say... Loads of things not covered, and even if you pop out of the van for a minute you won't be covered, but that isn't the point. The fact that it may not be worth the paper its written on should NOT be an excuse not to have it

A1 southbound today at Wentbridge - Our guy was in the rear ended Mondeo and he was carrying cool boxes of food samples which we took from him before the police got there - Delivery to the Lab was 20 minutes late.

Long Services said:

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Can't argue with what you say... Loads of things not covered, and even if you pop out of the van for a minute you won't be covered, but that isn't the point. The fact that it may not be worth the paper its written on should NOT be an excuse not to have it

Agreed. we insist on it even though it's a cash cow.

Williams Transport said:

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A1 southbound today at Wentbridge - Our guy was in the rear ended Mondeo and he was carrying cool boxes of food samples which we took from him before the police got there - Delivery to the Lab was 20 minutes late.

So that's what everyone is moaning about today! Nice pic (Hope everyone is ok?)

Williams Transport said:

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A1 southbound today at Wentbridge - Our guy was in the rear ended Mondeo and he was carrying cool boxes of food samples which we took from him before the police got there - Delivery to the Lab was 20 minutes late.

Wow, an accident like that and you managed to get someone to him before the police?

I take it then that he has no GIT and you don't have a policy like Courier Expert?

What did the other guy do? Park on the fast lane of the opposite side whilst the mondeo driver passed them over the central reservation?

£30,000k of GIT but only 3 miles from our office so he rang me and steps down to the carriageway from the overbridge where the photo was taken. Value of goods less than £2 but chilled samples for routine testing taken from batches of supermarket destined salads worth much, much more.

£30,000k required for Home Office work permit work but we have carried medical equipment at £750,000k per van load as and when required.

Do you have consequential loss covered then?

Why did you get the food boxes from the driver? Was it just to get the delivery made or because he wasn't insured for H & R?

Fully insured, H & R, GIT, Public Liability. There simply is no other way when you are running a proper operation. The opportunity presented itself to minimize the delay so why not do it?

Williams Transport said:

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Fully insured, H & R, GIT, Public Liability. There simply is no other way when you are running a proper operation. The opportunity presented itself to minimize the delay so why not do it?

I call that "Going the extra mile". Legitimate reason for delay, but you went out of your way to tie up another vehicle and driver in order to do your best for your customer. Doubling up, but not loads, vehicles! I hope you told your customer and explained what a good job you did.

Williams Transport said:

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Fully insured, H & R, GIT, Public Liability. There simply is no other way when you are running a proper operation. The opportunity presented itself to minimize the delay so why not do it?

Just curiuos, it is what I would have done myself. The customer is king